Suicidal Tendencies - Lights, Camera, Revolution! album artwork

This Episode · No. 41

RIFF072 - Suicidal Tendencies - Lights, Camera, Revolution!

01 December 2025 ·84 min ·Season 2025

0:00 1:24:21

Show Notes

Where Skate Punk Grew Up and Got a Grammy Nod

Episode 72 | Suicidal Tendencies, Lights, Camera, Revolution (1990) | Duration: ~84 minutes | Release: 8 December 2025

Episode Description

Neil and Chris dive into one of Neil's all-time decorating records, a 1990 album that transformed LA's banned skate punk outcasts into Grammy nominees. Suicidal Tendencies' fourth studio album represents a pivotal moment where hardcore punk evolved into something more accessible without losing its bite. The hosts explore how Mike Muir's uncompromising vision shaped a band that would later make him feel they'd sold out, despite creating what many consider their finest work.

This episode traces the journey from Venice Beach gang culture to arena tours with Metallica, examining how producer Mark Dodson (Judas Priest, Anthrax, Prong) brought a thicker, more polished production to ST's sound while maintaining their confrontational edge. The discussion covers Rob Trujillo's first full album with the band, Rocky George's phenomenal lead work, and why Mike Muir ultimately felt mainstream success betrayed everything the band stood for.

What You'll Hear

Why Neil's brain automatically plays Suicidal riffs during boring meetings
The story of Neil's first domain registration, suicidal.org, and its unexpected consequences
How the PMRC parental advisory sticker became a quality guarantee
The evolution from harsh skate punk to Grammy-nominated thrash
Why bands with strong visionary leaders create the tightest records

Featured Tracks & Analysis

You Can't Bring Me Down: The MTV smash featuring Mike Muir's legendary spoken-word rant, still recited word-for-word by audiences decades later
Send Me Your Money: A satirical takedown of televangelists that charted in the UK but not the US
Alone: The band's ballad exploring isolation in crowded rooms, a theme Neil connects with deeply
Lovely: Peak funky ST, addressing censorship with that infectious la-la-la hook

Tangential Gold

The great YouTube intro epidemic and why "hey guys, welcome back" needs to stop
Chris's confessions about watching horse hoof cleaning videos
Neil's heated blanket cat situation and an ignored delivery man
Why old Porsches smell better than new cars (and the benzene that might kill Neil)
The essential requirements for nerd club membership, from Hitchhiker's Guide quotes to Doctor Who opinions

Why This Matters

Lights, Camera, Revolution captures a band at the exact moment when underground credibility collides with commercial potential. It's the blueprint for countless crossover thrash records that followed, featuring lyrics that remain remarkably relevant, production that still sounds authentic, and performances that define an era. The album's themes of speaking truth to power, maintaining identity under pressure, and refusing to conform resonate just as strongly today as they did in 1990.

Perfect For

Fans of Prong, Anthrax, and Faith No More who appreciate thrash with melodic sophistication. Anyone curious about the pre-Metallica career of Rob Trujillo. Listeners who want to understand how LA's most banned band became Grammy nominees. Decorators who need the perfect painting soundtrack.

Transcript

Show transcript Hide transcript 1 exchange

Speaker0:00 Lights, camera, silence on the set, take rolling, 3, 2, 1, I- Riffology, yeah, Riffology, yeah. Woo! Hello. I did a woo. Yes, woo. I have to say, that was one of the least appropriate Riffology intros you've done. This is hardcore skate punk. We're doing Suicidal Tendencies. Suicidal Tendencies. That's how you sing their band name. Mike Muir will like sewers now. He'll be like, no, don't like that. Don't like that. That's not my band name. We're doing- You're Neil. Oh yeah, I'm Neil. You're Chris. Yeah. We're Riffology. Yeah. Welcome. No, welcomes. I don't know whether- Just welcome. I noticed on YouTube. Yeah. Everybody says- Hey guys. Hey guys, welcome back to the channel. Oh guys, what have I got to say? And I'm like, I don't, I don't, just, hey, don't do the hey guys. Just get into it. Just, oh, they go, they do that, and then they pause a bit, and then they go, oh, let's get right into it. Yeah, just get into it in the first place. Just get into it in the first place. Just get on with it. I don't need you to tell me about what you, I don't. What about if we had sloth off the Goonies at the start of every episode? Oh. Hey, you guys. And then we go into it like that, you see. That would be pretty good. That's what they should all do. They should just do that. For every channel. Do you know, I don't have anything against the intros on YouTube, but it's just that they're all the same. And all of the thumbnails are the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? Everything is the same. Yeah. On YouTube. And it's like, because one person's been really successful. Yeah, they all do it. Everyone goes, well, I will just do that. So it's a nice photo with them off to the side, then the big, bold text. That's it. Looking a bit shocked. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. With a clickbait headline, and then it opens, and then, hey, guys, welcome back to the channel. Yeah. Even if it's the first episode. You know, what? You dickhead. What are you doing? And this is actually our second try at this, isn't it? Oh, do you want to tell everybody what happened? I think it was God. It is God. Definitely God. We had a try last night. Which was today's Monday. I would say Monday afternoon, although it's dark. It's quarter past four. Yeah, so it's getting into evening, isn't it? It's dark. Yeah. It's the gloaming. Gloaming. Yeah. It is gloomy. Yeah. So that's what's happening. And last night, so Sunday night, we came, and we started doing the podcast, and we did the editing bit, and we did a good faff. I think we had a good hour and a half faff last night. Well, you're doing another podcast, aren't you? Yes. So we had to go and faff and do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we ate all the fruit pastels and drank all the Diet Coke. And then the problem was, is that I think the fruit pastels were the wrong colour. They were green fruit pastels, which we've talked about many times before, are inadequate for this show. You have to have the red ones. We do. Red and black ones. But we did have our bongo cokes. We did. It just sounds so bad, didn't it? We hid in the studio, because people steal stuff. Yeah. We hid our Coke zeros, actually, under the bongos. And there was one in each bongo. There was. I've done it again, Lord. Have you done it for the net ready? Because what we do is we get now, because when we get the shop, there's a four-pack, because it's less than a pound of can then. Yeah. Whereas if you get a single can, it's actually like getting towards 130, 135 now, which isn't good enough. No. So if we get a four-pack, it means we've got the two cokes for the night, and then we've got two cokes for the bongos. It's a cost of living, isn't it? That's what it is. Screw you, Rachel Reeves. We're going to do this. But we were in last night, and the power kept cutting off, didn't it? Yeah, yeah. And then it was all terrible. I think we recorded about seven minutes. We did, and then the power went off, and then we did it again, and then we couldn't get Pro Tools working, and then the light started buzzing, and then we just went home. Yeah. That's basically... But we've come back today. We have come back. The light stopped buzzing. And it's working. We've got the right colour fruit pastels. Yeah. And we've replenished the bongo cokes. We're going to do it for next time. We are. And we're going to cover one of my favourite albums. Yeah. There's a few albums that are... Lots of these albums that we do, I think are just brilliant. I think they're absolutely brilliant. This is one that I think is brilliant, but I've also smashed, like absolutely smashed. We're up there. There's a handful, probably like five or six records that I listen to really regularly still today. This is one of my decorating records. Is it? So if I've got... We've talked about this before, but I quite like decorating the house. You know, when the family... We are out. Yeah. I'll go and get my little... I've got this little... It's a really old Sonos move, right? And it's got like a battery in it. Mm. So I take it into the room and it sounds quite good. So I take it in the room and then I blast out music while I'm painting. And I like... It's quite mindful. I don't like the word mindful, but I quite like it. It's quite... You know, it's this... I don't know, therapeutic. Yeah. It's quite... So painting happens at the speed it happens. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you just kind of... You know what I mean? It's like... It's a bit brainless. It's like, I'm going to do all these things. I'm going to sand these things. I'm going to clean these bits down. I'm going to paint it. And it's nice and orderly. This is one of the albums that I quite often... I like Back in Black as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like this one. Appetite for Destruction is another one. Really? I'll do that. So you know when you listen to those albums? Because I've known this thing goes two ways. Yeah. So when you listen to those albums, do you imagine yourself painting? Oh, no. That doesn't work like that. It doesn't work that way around. No, no, no, no. It doesn't. Oh, that's interesting. Often, like when I listen to this album, like now, when I was listening to this album for prep, I guess it's weird because an album you know really, really well. And then to listen to it through thinking, how do I talk about this record? Yeah. I remember we used to play, there's my mate Adrian and my mate Anthony. Mad Tony, we've talked about. Mad Tony, yeah, yeah. And we used to play board games. We would have been, I don't know, 12, 13, 14, 15, that kind of age. And we used to go around to my mate Adrian's house and we used to go and play board games. All kinds of board games. And this would have been an album that we, we would have had on in that, in that, in that time. And the, and the, and actually the album before this as well. Yeah. Suicidal Tendencies were a big part of our music. This is, for me, this is where they peaked, right? Lights, Camera, Revolution was where they peaked. Yeah. Yeah. Because they'd been around about eight years before this. Is that right? Yeah. They were kind of a skate band. They were kind of a skate punk band. They had quite a nasty sound. I think kind of that, you know, that hardcore, nasty sound that your mom and dad wouldn't like. Yeah. Yeah. That kind of, I think a lot of, a lot of thrash came from that skate punk kind of, you know, that kind of, that kind of energy, but it had that kind of like dry as a bone punk kind of, you know, no reverb, just, do you know what I mean? Just kind of hard sounding. Yeah. Record, you know, it's kind of menacing almost, right? And I think it's interesting because if you listen to the back catalogue of, of ST, you can kind of hear the steps. Every record gets a little bit more consumable, a little bit more consumable. The energy level stage, I think for this record, this was the first one where Rob Trujillo played on it. Gotcha. Yeah. Off of Metallica. Metallica. Yeah. And he was in, there was a side project called Infectious Grooves as well, which he did with Mike Muir, but yeah, that, for me, this is like just uber peak. Yeah. Like this one, it's still got that like menacing kind of like non-conforming punk edge to it. It's still kind of quite, you know, I think Mike's got something to say. Yeah. He's pretty angry at the world and he's, you know what I mean? He's pretty, the lyrics are really cool on this record. But the production, it's really cool. It's Mark Dodson was the producer and then the band too, but yeah, the production I think is pretty cool. It's got like this thrash, it's where thrash went, if you like. Yeah. It's kind of got like a thrashy vibe to it. But like for hardcore skate punk, didn't sound like this. Right, right. This was kind of like a bigger, thicker production to it, which is a little bit more, I don't know, I think it was, I think it let people enjoy them a little bit more, like it broadened their audience. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, one of the things that's really interesting about it is that Mike Muir would later go on to say that like, it was this record that broke them, right? You Can't Bring Me Down, absolutely broke. Yeah. Because they had a really big hit with Institutionalized earlier on, but You Can't Bring Me Down was like another, and it was all over MTV. I was going to say it was Beavis and Butthead. Beavis and Butthead, yeah, all of that stuff. It was, it was a big deal. A lot of people discovered ST from this record. Yeah. And Mike Muir would later go on to say that like, he felt that they'd sold out. He felt that like from, from his perspective, they were an underground band. Yes. And all of a sudden they were in, they, like for two or three years off the back of this record, they were in stadiums. They weren't headlining stadiums, but they were opening for Metallica. They were opening for, you know, these, these massive bands. They were, yeah, they would open for huge bands on arena tours. And Mike Muir would later go on and go like, do you know what? That wasn't, wasn't us. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We were the underground band. We were the, yeah, exactly. And then that's, it's interesting because that's where their career kind of almost went like Mike almost killed their career. It kind of almost went, yeah, no, and then they released a bunch of tracks that were just like harsher than harsh. They kind of went right back to that harsh skate punk sound, but it's interesting to me. And so they did that and almost like, like suffocated ST, but then in parallel to that we're doing, um, uh, infectious grooves, which is like, that's the funky stuff. Yeah. Funky and groovy. And I, and I think, I mean, that was, I mean, you played some of that stuff and that's almost got like that faith no more thing going on. Yeah. There was definitely that aspect to it. Like Rob to heal it. Rob, it's, it's funny listening to Rob play Metallica knowing this is where he came from, you know, that kind of, but he's, he's got such bad. That kind of funky, I don't know. There's just some, he's, he's really cool bass player, Rob. Yeah. And, um, but yeah, I just think it's really interesting that, that like Mike was, you know, that's not who we are. We're not, do you know what I mean? Like it kind of feels to me like Metallica always were destined to be this massive arena band. And there are other bands that you, you just think, um, I don't know, like Coldplay, right? You think, you imagine Coldplay in a dingy little club somewhere. It's not, do you know what I mean? It's not quite right. Well, it's ST. You put them there. That's where they're at home. That's where they live. ST in an arena were like fish out of water almost, you know, even though it was amazing. If you ever read the reviews and see the footage of them, like they were brilliant. But then if you see them, like there's a lovely footage of them at, um, at Rock City, um, and Mike Muir just kind of like, he's like a gorilla, just kind of bounds around the stage. And there's, um, there's just a really high energy gig. Do you know what I mean? It's full on. Um, it's, it's, it's really fun as well because, uh, Ben Weinman from Dillinger is now their guitarist. Oh, I didn't know that. And if there's, that's the thing about it, cause suicidal sentences to me, in my brain, they're a super group in my brain. They're like, they're like all that. But I didn't realize that that's just because it's the lineup has changed so much over the years and they've just got different people as the story's gone on. Yeah. Yeah. They did. They, yeah. I mean, I think for, for this era, it was pretty stable, stable-ish. Um, I thought that's what it was. It was, I always thought it was like all these bands that had then come together to create suicidal sentences and that's not what it is. No. It's Mike Muir's baby. Yeah. If you like, it's kind of his band. You kind of, when you hear them speak, kind of his band, but these people kind of come and join and contribute and get involved. You know, we've been in the band for eight years and I don't know how much longer we'll be doing this band, but we got to go on with our lives after it's over with. And if this is our claim to fame, then our lives are screwed up because this ain't got no meaning as far as it comes to the real world and stuff. Well, basically when it's talking about people say, well, what the suicidal lyrics about is my world, but see, my world is the whole world. And it's a lot of times people put me down for the way I see things, but they were never there when I was a kid and they never were there when I went through things I did. And before they can put down my world, they better take a walk inside my world. And when they take a walk inside my world, they're going to see things differently. And I'm not telling people to see things the way I do. And I'm not saying, a lot of people say, you got a bad attitude. I don't got a bad attitude. I got the best attitude there is because I won't quit because I'm going on and I'm going to do things. And being on this show don't mean a lot to me, you know, it does to some other people. And people always, when I say that, people get upset, but it's like, you know, I'm going to be 40, I'm going to be 50 if I make it that far. And there's a lot of things that are a lot more important. And when you see things in the world and when you see people dying, people that get screwed up that you care about, you're telling me it's important that you got like a song that goes number one on the radio. It don't mean a lot to me, you know? Yeah, I think so. I think, yeah, it's definitely Mike Muir's band. But then you've got like, like I think on this record, you've got Rocky George, who did the lead work. Great player. Oh, she was just epic. I think. Proper shredder. Really good. Yeah. There's like, I think you can't bring me down particularly. The lead work. But it's not just because there's melody there as well. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's riffs. And it's not just pure shred. It's, you know, there's like a real versatility to it. You say that there's a melody to it, which a lot of hardcore bands and a lot of thrash bands were not, they were like almost afraid to experiment with, I think. Yeah, yeah. And ST just kind of took it to that next level. Loads of bands would do that in 90s, like for that early part of the 90s. You had Metallica, even like Megadeth and Anthrax and Testament and all these others were, the melody was just kind of, it was, you know, I guess the five years previous to that, like the late 80s, especially in fast and extreme music, melody wasn't a big deal. It was, you know, it was about how fast you could play, how aggressive you could play. Yes. Do you know what I mean? It was about, it was about, you know, setting your stall out to be more aggressive and faster than everybody else. And then after the 90s, after that, after 90, you could see it kind of, like as bands started to break and get like uber popular by including some like melodic bits in there. Yeah, yeah. And even like the death, I love thinking like Carcass and stuff were putting, there's a lot of melody coming in there. And then you had like Arch Enemy and that melodic, all of that stuff kind of followed on afterwards. But yeah, I think it was, it's a just, it's a phenomenal line because you had, you had Mike Muir on vocals and I love Mike's, there are bits in this like where, I love Mike's rants where he kind of just breaks that into these rants. They're phenomenal live. There are bits that he, and I wonder if he did this on purpose, but there are bits in there that just play so well to a live audience, a small, you know, like a thousand seater gig, right, where the whole audience knows every word and they're kind of spitting them back. Like the, the rant that he does, everyone knows every word. Yes. So they're all kind of saying it at the same time. And he just kind of, it's, I think he's just epic. And, and like some of the, some of the lyrics and some of the takes that he has on stuff and he builds that into this story, like emotion number 13 is this kind of, you know, it was this, uh, pushback really about trying to quantify humanity and, and trying to, you know, like, like, so the, the, the concept is that, um, you know, eventually all of, all of our feelings will have some kind of number or description next to them so that, you know, you can write them down and like, if it's emotion number 13, it's just an emotion that might be happy, it might be sad or whatever. And he was, he just felt that was absurd. Um, you had, um, you, you had like, yeah, you can't bring me down as well, which is, you just epic. You had, uh, bring me your money, which I was, you know, all about televangelists and stuff. And the lyrics through all of these, all of these songs is, that's just, they're clever, but without being, you know what I mean? It's, they're not, um, not too clever. No. You don't need a degree to understand them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're just, I don't know, they're, for me, they're like really, they're storytelling and clever at the same time. And they make you think, oh yeah, that's clever, you know, as you, as you're kind of listening to it. Got something to say. Yeah. That's the bit that I, when I was listening to this, I was going, no, this, these, this is a band that, particularly him, Mike, you know, with something to say, that's what this is about. I think you're right. I think he's definitely got something to say. The title was taken from two different songs. One of them is like, Give It Revolution, and that's kind of why it's on the 4th of July. And the way a lot of people look at things is like what's happening in the world and Eastern Europe and stuff and all the freedom and things like that. And with the suicidal thing is it's like there's a war that's going on, and all wars are not fought with guns and they're not fought with fists. There's a war and, you know, each person has to deal with. And when we say Give It Revolution, it's not about politicians because there's no law that can make you free. Someone can't pass a law and say that I'm free. That's not it. You have to be free inside yourself and stuff. And you can put me in any jail you want in the world and I'll still be free because I am who I am and I believe in it and no one can change the way I think. And I think freedom is something that's not like, OK, you're free now. Go off and do it. No, that's something that you have to gain for yourself, that you have to fight for. And like I said, it doesn't have to be with fists, but that's it's like life's a war. And, you know, you're going to have a lot of battles and sometimes you lose. But the whole thing is when it's all said and done, you win the war. And that's what Suicidal is about. You have Rocky George on the lead. He was just I think that combination of Mike and Rocky's is just phenomenal. And the lead guitar work on this record is great. Then you have Mike, Mike Clark for Rhythm Guitar. Yeah, he he was in a side project called No Mercy. But the rhythm is really like chuggy. It's kind of like it doesn't feel like if you if you roll back to the early parts of their career. Sounded punky. Yeah. That kind of, you know, that kind of jaggedy riff style that you get from from punk. This feels different. This feels quite weighty and chuggy. I was going to say when I was listening to the back, the sort of background guitar, it was more like what prong do. It was more like that sort of stuff. Yeah, yeah. There's definitely there is definitely a similar in the rhythm section. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With those those two. Yeah, absolutely. And then you have Robert Tuhilo, who this is the first record for Rob. Weirdly. And I might be wrong with this. I'm sure somebody will. People always tell me when I'm wrong. I think he was credited on the album before. So he might have done a bit. He didn't. He definitely didn't. I saw an interview with him and he it was funny. Like he said something like, you know, contrary to rumors, I didn't did not play on that record. Right, right. But he's credited on it. Yes. He was credited on the record. Didn't play on it. Not that I'm aware of anyway. I think he then toured on it. I think he did some live shows with it. But this was the first one that he was he was on. Well, everybody in the band when we started off before we weren't suicidal all came from different kind of music and stuff. And with the stuff that we do, it's not like, you know, we're trying to be like a certain kind of music or whatever. If people want to categories in one way, that's what they can do. But we're just doing our whole thing and what's happening with the music is like, I mean, he slaps the bass and that's where it's at. And that's what we do with our sound. And it's just basically it's what we like. He has a big I think looking back on it now, you can see the influence he has on on on the band here. But yeah, he's I don't know, he's like a chameleon almost because he can just fit in and play like in just his ability to kind of go with the project, if you like, rather than enforce his like his one style. I think he's, you know, like some people like a one trick pony and you can hear their style. Yeah. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, because Dave Lombardo ended up playing the drums for for ST on World Gone Mad in 2016. And you can hear it's Dave Lombardo playing. Yeah. I'm not saying that's a bad thing because it is really cool. But what Rob Trujillo seems to do to me is kind of embody the project that makes sense what everybody's doing, the direction things are going in. I think you probably still hear it's Rob Trujillo because he's got a really cool style. But do you know what I mean? He's not he's not he didn't make Metallica sound like ST. And yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? He kind of is fitting in with the project. And then you add RJ Herrera on drums. Now, I really like his drumming on this record. I think that yeah, thrash thrash for me thrash drumming is really important. You can you can go a bit overboard if you're not careful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't think he does. I think it's really beautifully placed. It's the kind of drumming that if you can hear it, you notice it, it's kind of wrong. Yeah, it's the sort of drumming that when you know it's right, you don't really know it's there. It's just doing its thing. It's kind of driving. But then it's where it's where it's used, like the kind of stop start stuff and where it's like there are bits in this where it kind of develops into like a stomp. It's like, but the drums are kind of, they become a bit more visible in that point because they're driving the change in the song. You know, sorry, unlike me, I'm going a little bit off piste. Not you. You know, you've got like Mike Muir. Mike Muir, when you listen to him speak, he's obviously got, he's a big personality, isn't he? He is, yeah. You know, if you walk in a room and Mike Muir's in there, you kind of know he's there. Yeah. You get the sense of that, that he's someone that's, you know, takes up space, if you like. I wonder if, because you have a few bands where it revolves around a personality like that. And I wonder if that's how the bands become so cohesive and tight. Because they're, and I don't think it's like in a punitive sense, but there's almost that kind of like, you know, no, this is the identity of the band. Like there's a leader. There's a direction. Yeah, I think that's it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. But someone with such a strong vision of what it is. Yeah. And that's why, you know, your Robs and your different people like that, they kind of fall into line with that vision. I think you're right. I think there are people that you see like that. Yeah, one person I always think of when you think of that is Paddy. I think Paddy's always got, he's got that vision. Yeah. Like, and it's, I think there's a skill, and I think Paddy's brilliant at this, but sometimes you see people, they've clearly got this vision and they just can't articulate it. So they can't get people around them to join them because they can't, the vision's there, but they don't have the tools to describe it. And I just think, I think it's such a rare skill to be able to, A, have that kind of vision of a project of where it's going to go. I don't think it matters whether it's a musical project or any kind of project, but just to have that kind of vision of, you know, where it's going to go and what it's going to be. Yeah. But then be able to be articulate enough. Yeah. And storytell sufficiently to get people to go, yeah, we get, I get it. I get what that's about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get what that's about, right. And they might not be, you know, they might not have the same vision in their head, but they're close enough that they're coming, you know, they're like, yeah, I'm, I'm on this journey with you. I'm with it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because there's some albums we've done where I think that is probably quite easy. Yeah. So, like Queensryche, Operation Minecraft. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I reckon that was pretty easy. I reckon somebody's gone, hey, I've got this idea, this story, this dude, this is what happens to him. Here's a story arc. We're going to write some Queensryche. It's similar, wasn't it, with that guy, Chris Summey, wasn't it? The singer of Queensryche. What was his name? Tate. Oh, Jeff Tate. Jeff Tate. Where did Chris from? Yeah. He's not a dissimilar personality. Yeah, quite strong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Quite strong personality and famously fell out with the, near the band. Yeah, because there's two Queensryche right now, isn't there? Yeah, basically, yeah. It's like, what was the other band that was like that? Wishbone Ash. Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking of. And it's Entombed as well. Oh, Entombed the same. Entombed AD. Yeah. And then you had... Sepultura. Sepultura that were called... Went off to Soulfly. They went off to Soulfly and then what actually was called Soul... Sepultura wasn't really Sepultura, was they? I think that stuff happens all the time. Yeah, yeah. But I do... Yeah, I don't know. I think there's definitely something there, isn't there? When you've got somebody who's got a vision of a thing. And it can go really wrong. Well, I think about Guns N' Roses. Yeah, yeah. Where you've got Axl. I think the band didn't have a vision. The band were just playing rock and roll. Yeah, yeah. And then all of a sudden, Axl tasted success and then did that stupid double album of Use Your Illusion. It should have been one album and they should have junked the rest. But then, and then, sorry about that. But then, yeah, and then he went off down the... What if that's someone's favourite album who listens to this show, though? Oh, I don't know. Lots of people really like those albums. And I'm like, there's some good stuff here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's some that's a bit... It's not appetite, is it? Somebody sold a double album and just filled it. Yeah. And I just think it shouldn't, it should have been Use Your Illusion. Yeah. And it shouldn't have had, there's a bunch of tracks on there. There may be some B-sides. Maybe there was like half another album there, a quarter of another album there. Maybe if you worked some of that riffs around and fixed it up. But it didn't have the same punch that Appetite did. It was a more grandiose record. Yeah. But it was, I don't know. And there's some like phenomenal bits on there. But yeah, it clearly had the vision of this double album. And I think, I don't know, somebody should have reeled him in a little bit. Yeah. But then you had Chinese Democracy, which is like a decade long, even longer. Although the number of people that played on Chinese Democracy, it's like you feel a small, you feel like a village hall with the number of... A village hall? Specifically a village hall? Which one? Which village hall? Newton Solney. Newton Solney Village Hall. Linton Village Hall. Linton Village Hall. I think you could fill with ex-guitarist members, ex-Goods and Roses members. But I guess the point is that there's, you know, when the vision goes wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so in some cases that is incredibly powerful. But when you're behind, or when the person you're behind is misfiring a little bit. Yeah, yeah. Then you're 10 years later. Yeah, and he really struggled, Axl. Yeah. He really struggled. And they produced an album that was like, I mean, it was a bit crapper than Use Your Illusion 2. And I think for 10 years, I expected something better than that. Did I have, which one did Use Your Illusion 2? Was that November Rain and all that? Yeah, yeah. I get them mixed up by Thinks, I think so, yeah. Yeah. I mean, there was Spaghetti Instant as well. That was an album, wasn't it? I like that. Spaghetti Instant, I like it, but that was all covers and stuff, wasn't it? Oh, was it? Right. I think so, yeah. I don't really, yeah, just Appetite for me. That's the one that I like. It's difficult to beat, though. It's absolutely a banger. But, I mean, I don't think there was a vision there. I just don't think there was, I just think that was them blasting on all. They were in the, yeah, they were all in LA, all. Yeah, that was just serendipity. That was just, there were people there, the right people, right time, right, you know, backing. And it just kind of went crazy. And sometimes you need the vision to make these things. Isn't it crazy? The idea of, sorry, we're going really off-piste here, but the idea of like, at that time, because of those circumstances, Sweet Child of Mine happens. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And it's one of the most incredible songs ever written. And that was just the product of that scenario, the product of those brains coming together. Chance. Yeah, yeah. It's what makes it special, though, I suppose, isn't it? Yeah, I agree. It is. Let's, let's, I want to talk a little bit about the timing of this album, Suicidal Tendencies, Lights, Camera, Revolution. So, I was there, and I loved this album. Like, as it launched, the albums that came before it, I loved all of this stuff. And I was trying to think, right, back in the day, when these albums were around, we never called it Funk Metal. No. We didn't, that wasn't a thing. No, it was just Suicidal Tendencies. It was just thrash. It was just outcast, what you mean, yeah. Well, for us, it was, like, Black Sabbath was, there was no such thing as classic rock. Yeah, yeah. Well, classic rock might have been, I don't know, Rush, maybe. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Or, I'm trying to think of what might have been, like, considered classic rock at that point. Yeah, Boston, that kind of stuff. Journey. Yeah, Journey as well. I quite like Journey, actually. Whitesnake. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe. I suppose they were. But it's interesting. Deep Purple. White, yeah. Deep Purple, definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uriah Heep. Yeah. All of that. So, we had, like, Metal, which is the Iron Maiden, right, and the band that floated around that. And then you had Thrash, which would have been the bands, the big four and around the big four, the kind of, you know, the Metallicas and the Anthraxes and Panteras and all of that stuff, right? And for us, ST were just part of that, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They had similar production and tone to them, just Thrash. Yeah. Faith No More, Thrash. Everything was just, it was either, it was either Iron Maiden and Metal, Classic Rock and, like, Uriah Heep and that stuff, right? Or it was Thrash. And then, and then around, like, the late 80s, you got, like, extreme stuff as well. So, you would get, like, Grindcore and you had, like, Death Metal. Well, that was about it. Yeah. That was, and you would be splitting hairs a little bit. You would still argue with your mates in the pub, oh, Faith No More, they're not Thrash, they're this or that. Do you know what I mean? With that, but they were the genres that you, that you had. Looking back, at that time, where the genres did not exist, they just didn't exist. Yeah. Everybody's now like, oh, no, well, they were, they were funk metal, and they were this metal, and they were blah, blah, and you're like, at the time, none of that existed at the time. No, no. It was just kind of metal, really. And if you were being a little bit anal, you'd be like, oh, Metallica, a thrash. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, or, you know, Testament, a thrash, and entombed to death. You know? And it's like, oh. But now? Now, oh, this is techno-mellow death. Techno-mellow death. Yeah, there'll be loads of that. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It's like, why do we need all of these? Yeah. Why do we need all of these different things? I think it's, I don't know, sometimes, you can say they're kind of like that, but they're the band of the band, and it's really interesting how Mike Muir refers to suicidal tendencies as suicidal, like, the name, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like, the whole ethos is that. It's that thing. It's not rock. It's not metal. It's not thrash. It's not. It's suicidal. That's what it is. Do you know who was the first domain I ever registered? Suicidal.org. Suicidal.org. Really? It was the first domain I registered. I don't know when it would have been. It would have been like 90, I don't know, 97, 98, something like that. And I did it, because I wanted a website, and so I did it, and I built this website in like 97 or whatever it was. And it was dead good. I was really pleased with myself. And then I created myself an email, and I started to get these like really harrowing emails from people that were genuinely like, and you know, I mean, I don't know how old I would have been, like, I'm trying to think, that would have made me 10, that would have made me 20, like, I don't know, like, in the early 20s, I wasn't equipped to deal with people telling me that they were going to like, you know, end their existence. And they'd found my domain, which was a domain about music. And they were like, I'm just going to end it all. And it was bizarre. So I used to go and like, I found this site, and I used to send them to that, and I used to go and do all that stuff. And it got to the point where I kept it for like two years, and then just like, I'm not doing this again. I can't do it. It's too hard. If you look on the Wayback Machine, you might find it, actually. What's the Wayback Machine? Can you not know what the Wayback Machine is? That's your homework for next week. Is it? Yeah. Your homework for next week is, go and check out the Wayback Machine. You know how notoriously bad I am for homework. I do, yeah. But you should do this. So the Wayback, if anyone does not come across the Wayback Machine, so Google the Wayback Machine, and essentially, it's like a snapshot of websites going back in time. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. So, yeah. So you can kind of go back. And if you can remember the URL, if you type the URL in, it'll probably have a snapshot of... So like a screenshot type thing, or like a usable version of it? You can interact with it. Yeah, yeah. Often. But yeah, you can go back there, and it will be... They're not screenshots. It's the HTML that they grab. And sometimes the images are missing. Sometimes the images get lost. But yeah, they're very cool. If you've got like... I think it's quite fun to go back and look at like AltaVista and Google in the early days and that kind of stuff. But yeah, suicidal.org will be there somewhere. If you go and have a look at that. Oh, wow. I can't remember what I used to put on there now. As a 20-year-old that I felt was urgently to share with the world. It was Goo Goo Dolls, wasn't it? I don't know. I don't know whether it was back then. It would have been... I was into IRC quite a lot back then. So I was writing a lot of code about IRC. And that's where I found out about music. Right. So there would be the other developers and stuff of IRCD, and we would be like, you know, sharing code. And it was when Linux kind of started. And then we all figured out we could port the IRCD code across. So we did that and then built these big IRC networks. But then like as part of that, you're not coding all the time. Yeah. But that's where we kind of lived. It was like, you know, you spent a lot of time there. And there'd be a ton of like people sharing music and new discoveries and stuff. Wow. So I discovered tons of music that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In my 20s. Yeah. I would go Friday night, get home. This is how you used to do rock and roll often. So on a Friday night, you'd get back, we'd all go to the pub and then come back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you go and drunkenly go and write IRCD code. And most evenings, I'd just write it, but I'd do it sober. Speaking of that, should we talk about your YouTube browser history for the day today? Well, I was on holiday today. I was supposed to be doing stuff and I had a busy morning. And, you know, I don't know about you, but I kind of feel like my productivity is like an empty bucket and I get to a point of the day and I just think, I feel that now. Yeah. I'm all right. So, and it was cold. I've done enough stuff. Yeah, it was cold and wet today. Yeah. And I saw all my cats are in the front room just kind of on the sofa. Did you get those new cats? Oh, you know, they went, they were their foster cats, so they went to their foster home. Oh, right. So that was another tangent, but off they went to their home last night. Yeah. But my cats, they were all kind of killed up on the sofa. With a heated blanket that the boys get under. So I went, because I'm a bit soft, I went and switched it on for them. Yeah. For the cats. Yeah. And then I came back in about 10, 15 minutes later and they were all just purring away. Yeah. And I was like, I'm cold. Yeah. So I got under the heated blanket and I thought, I'm going to watch YouTube. So I put YouTube on and I found a video from Alex Steele, who I really like, about making barrels and it's about an hour long. And I was just totally engrossed, totally engrossed in the, the making of, of barrels. And I'd got like a man, a man came to do a delivery and I just ignored the door. Because you're that into that. Yeah. They'll just, they'll just leave it, won't they? Yeah. Yeah. And he did. Bless him. It was really nice of him. But yeah, I, I did, I did do that. Yeah. I love that. I love it when I get into, into things. Don't you? I do. Yeah. I do get into things. You like that one. Alex Steele making barrels. Really good. Yeah. If you, it makes things out of wood and there's hammering, there's fire. Oh no, if there's fire, I'm definitely watching it. It's all, all kinds of that one. That one, my other favorite one is Wristwatch Revival. Yeah. My ones were, um, uh, horses getting their hooves changed. Oh, you told me about that. Blacksmithing. Yeah. Blacksmithing. Yeah. And, um, cow hooves, just hooves. Just hooves. Yeah. Cow hooves getting cleaned out. You never know when that skill might come in handy. Like the whole world might end tomorrow. Yeah. No electricity. If, if, if we stopped electricity, the world would go back like a thousand years overnight. You'd know how to do hooves. I wouldn't know how. I'd say I watched a really good video about this. You'd figure it out. You'd figure it out. I'd make barrels. It's a very good looking man, actually. Was it? Who does the hooves. Yeah. I could make barrels. You could make hooves. And it'd be good. I do like, do you know, um, uh, my, uh, my youngest, um, he's 11 and he keeps describing the behavior of some of the girls at school and you think they properly fancy you. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know when they're like being, you know what I mean? Like one of them keeps doing things to him as if, as if, um, and he's, oh, she, she hates me. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that doesn't quite work. Yeah. And then we had, uh, and then we had, we, we sat down about, it was about a week ago and I was kind of dude, just avoid girls. Don't go anywhere near girls. Right. Um, but I, the bit I think is really funny is like, if I imagine me dating now, like I'm the nerdiest, most boring man on the planet. Do you know what I mean? My, my profile would just be, you know, I quite like arithmetic, um, quite like doing code. Yeah. Yeah. Really like doing that. Um, uh, I, I, I like, uh, you know, I, I like science and that, and I really like watching YouTube videos about making things. Oh, and I love tidying up. Do you know what I mean? It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like who's going to go with it? Yeah. That's exactly the kind of man I want. That's the one. Yeah. Definitely the kind of person I'm looking for. Simpler times back then, weren't they? Got a Porsche though, mate. I have got a Porsche. Well, I haven't got a Porsche at the minute. It's gone back to the, it's gone back because it's wheel bearings broken. It's the problem with old cars. You know, when you have old cars, people think, oh, you know, isn't it, isn't it wonderful having an old car? And it kind of is when they're working. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then bits go wrong. Yeah. They saw everything, everything's rusty. They look really pretty on the outside. As soon as you poke underneath them, because they're old. Yeah. I like the smell of my old Porsche though. Yeah. You see that. Cars don't smell like that anymore. No, no. I think that's a really, yeah. It's got a lovely kind of, and you know, other little things like the knobs, you know, when you touch things. Yeah. Kind of feels proper. Yeah. Everything feels a bit plasticky and naff nowadays. And I quite like, I don't know, sound like an old man now. Like a really boring. It's when they're built properly. Yeah. It feels like everything's got like a clunk to it or a, you know what I mean? And it feels like, you know, there's metal bits in my car and it's made of metal. If you touch it, it's cold. Whereas like most cars, I mean, it looks like metal. It's plastic. Yeah. It looks like metal. Mm. It doesn't feel the same. No. And it's the smell. It definitely doesn't smell the same. No. And I love that smell when you, when you start it up in the morning, you get that kind of rich petrol smell. Benzene's probably going to kill me. There's something, something nice about it. Yeah. Not here for a long time. Here for a good time. What the hell's going on around here? What the hell's going on around here? You can't bring me down. Who the hell are you calling crazy? You wouldn't know I'm crazy. Was a child's mask. Was eating food looks on your front porch. Don't know. Let's get something clear. I speak. Won't you think what I hear? Skate gold. Cover up your fear. You can't bring me. You ain't. The seas of which mine might pour. All I know is like what all? You got yourself a fight. You can't bring me. Stand up. We're not singing along. Together. Ain't nothing to stop. Won't quit. We ain't in the wrong. You can't bring me. You can't bring me down. Bring me down. You can't bring me down. Bring me down. You can't bring me down. No. Bring me down. You can't bring me down. Bring me down. You can't bring me down. You can't bring me down. Tell me what's up like it. You can't bring me down. You can't bring me down. You can't bring me down. Bring me down. You can't bring me down. Bring me down. You can't bring me down. No. Bring me down. You can't bring me down. Bring me down. You can't bring me down. You can't bring me down. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. It's like you're trying to breathe. And just cause you don't understand what's going on, don't mean it don't make no sense. And just cause you don't like it, don't mean it ain't no good. And let me tell you something, before you go take a walk in my world, you better take a look in the real world, cause this ain't no Mr. Rogers neighborhood. Can you say, feel like shit? Yeah, maybe sometimes I do feel like shit. I ain't happy about it, but I'd rather feel like shit than be full of shit. And if I offended you, oh, I'm sorry, but maybe you need to be offended. But if I apologize and one more thing, fuck you, cause you can't bring me down. Um, I forgot what we're doing. What are we doing? We're doing a podcast, mate, about suicidal tendencies. Oh, shall we talk? Shall we do some facts and that? Let's do some facts and that. Um, I'm gonna, I've got the blog. I didn't, I didn't do in a very factual, well, not, I didn't do in a factual, I didn't do in a very orderly way. So this might ramble, but I'm going to go through it. It's a good blog. This one is very, very in depth. July 3rd, 1990 is when it was released. Um, genre, official genre genre is thrash metal on the submissions for, um, it's the RIA, whatever runtime, 42 minutes, 10 songs. Perfect. Absolutely. Perfect. Was released on Epic Records produced by Mark Dodson. Um, now Mark Dodson, I did have a list. You know, shall I give you some things that Mark Dodson's, uh, done? The producer. Yeah. Mark Dodson there. Shall, shall I give you some of the things that he's worked on? Yeah. Uh, Judas Priest, Sin After Sin. Um, Joan Jett, Bad Reputation. Yeah. He did Judas Priest, Defenders of the Faith. Um, he did Metal Church, The Dark. He did, um, the album before this one, Suicidal Tendencies, How Will I Laugh Tomorrow When I Can't Even Smile Today, which is a fantastic record. He did State of Euphoria with Anthrax. Oh, wow. Did Prongs Beg to Differ? One of the best records on the planet. Is that one of the early pronged ones or the later ones? 1990, yeah. Yeah. Really good record that was. Uh, he obviously did this one. Did Anthrax Persistence of Time? Um, did Prongs Prove You Wrong, Ugly Kid Joe, America's Least Wanted. Oh, that was a good album. Um, he did, uh, The Wild Hearts versus The Wild Hearts. Oh, he did that one? Um, uh, so either arranging or engineering or producering. So some involvement, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, um, he did The Wild Hearts Fuck, which is, uh, again, a really, really cool record. Uh, more Joan Jett, more Suicidal Tendencies. Um, God, it's crazy. Which is well, well versed in that rock vibe, for sure. Yeah, yeah, more Ugly Kid Joe. The thick stuff as well. Yeah, I think so. I mean, just a little bit meaty. Yeah, super, super cool. Um, I've forgotten where I got to. Anyway, Mark Dodson, dead good. Um, was recorded in Los Angeles and Hollywood. So it was recorded in Rimbo Recorders. It sounds Hollywood, doesn't it? It does a West Coast sound to it. It has, for sure. Um, three singles from it. You Can't Bring Me Down, Send Me Your Money. Um, oh, sorry, four. Alone and Lovely. Yeah. You Can't Bring Me Down was the big one. Yeah, yeah. Um, Send Me Your Money. That was the preacher one, wasn't it? Yeah, that's the one that landed in the chart. I think, I forget, there might be some of my notes for that. Is that the one with the rant on it? Uh, Send Me Your Money. No, you can't bring me down. Oh, that's the rant on it, sorry. Send Me Your Money is the, um, yeah, the preacher one. The television, it's all about televangelists. Um, Alone is about... I've seen that really scary one. Oh, I don't know. That really scary televangelist. I'll show you a video in a bit. He's really scary. I don't... It looks like he's a demon. I don't like them. No. They don't like clowns. Don't like them either. Um, Alone, uh, again, is, like, every ST record has, like, a bit of a ballad on it. Yeah, yeah. Um, and, yeah, Alone, for me, is really, it's really cool. It's a really cool thing, and it's about, the context behind it is being, like, in a room full of people, but not connecting and feeling isolated a little bit, which I think, I don't know, I feel that. Like, that, and as soon as I read about that, and I heard Mike talking about it. Yeah, you kind of resonate with it. Yeah, massively, and you just think that, so I feel that all the time, and, um, it's almost like the more people in the room, the more isolated I tend to feel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and, yeah, it's super weird. And lovely, we just got that fantastic... La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la. Screw those people everywhere, but I ain't got time to care, I feel lovely. It's good old people everywhere, but I ain't got time to care I ain't feel lovely All kind of soul down to the curb But me, I don't feel absurd I ain't feel lovely Cause it's not a problem for society if it don't affect me And I feel lovely As long as I feel lovely, yeah Oh, so lovely And I'm not guilty of your abuses It's all so seducing, I feel lovely Everything's not lovely, lovely Oh, oh Oh, you're kind of like the pollution Like I'm a quick, that's the solution It's lovely Wouldn't it that be lovely? Everything's lovely Oh, yeah Some simple babe, don't you remember me? Now I'm kind of general and so happy It's lovely As long as I feel lovely, yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah Everything is lovely Yeah, yeah, yeah La la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la... La la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Culture in LA and their shows were getting banned they were yeah it was interesting listening to kind of various interviews and reading things about them at the time I don't think the band were but their shows were pretty violent right yeah yeah it was attracting those kind of less about the band being involved in just the kind of clientele the music attracted yeah yeah I think so I think that's kind of um yeah I think that's kind of what it was uh what it was about um uh where did I get to down here I'm scrolling down through my list um oh uh so I made a note that this album feels like a step up in in complexity it's kind of more layers and it feels more produced I don't know how much of it is just that with producer or the fact that you've got kind of Rob Chihilo there and you've got you know there's there's a few different people uh around but um yeah it did for for saying that Mike was then um you know felt that they'd sold out they put quite a lot of effort into yeah yeah yeah to making this a like I would say like a um uh like an approachable album it's you know it lost it didn't lose any of the energy or the aggression for me but it lost a lot of the harsh edges yeah it was a lot more polished um yeah I remember you flicking through some of the early stuff and it was really spiky it's yes I mean you know me I quite like that kind of that's kind of what drew me into them um and I love the melodies in this record and it's one of my favorite records from ST but um but yeah there's a very real difference in them like a really real difference um did not really bother the charts this album no it was a bit of an underground success and it was kind of pretty well um but was it one that was kind of like figured out later not really no just stayed there I don't think anybody made millions of copies I think they sold like half a million copies something like that um which you know when you when you consider that back in black sold like 50 yeah yeah yeah um you know I think it was enough to enough to keep the band going for for a while um but yeah I didn't sell that many copies it's really interesting as well because I was able to pick up an original copy of this I think for 20 22 quid and so that's they're good yeah yeah I think that's how my money yeah it's how vinyl should be it was it's proper there's something really nice about proper old vinyl it's it's floppy and it smells nice and the cardboard's a bit brown and I mean you get a new one and it's like they feel like big sharp solid bits of kit but vinyl didn't feel like that no back when I was it when I was a kid proper yeah yeah um where has I got to oh we talked about the singles a little bit um uh there's uh um we talked about alone oh lovely we didn't talk about lovely so lovely was that another single that they did off of this album and essentially it's about censorship uh it's about the pmrc who you always knew yes you always knew when an album was going to be really good because it did that and it was very funky as well that was kind of peak peak peak funky maybe I don't know it was quite funky that that record um there was lots like the the feedback from this record on release was phenomenal just everybody loved it it was one of those records that was just really really well received um the press really liked it you know in um you know we talked about bush yeah uh a few weeks ago um the the fans loved it but the press were just ripped it apart really this was not this was like yeah this was just everybody loved it it was it was just phenomenal um I'll see what you mean yeah yeah in contrast to it you know where like um yeah and even even now looking back on this um like lots of the uh uh magazines review this kind of stuff and and and this record as a lights camera revolution is quite often up there in the you know top 50s of of like metal and thrash albums from the yeah that's super interesting isn't it but it but it was always consistently there and it wasn't the case where yeah I see what you're saying so like we said the other week with bush yeah with bush they hammered it lots of people look back on uh 16 stone from bush and change their perspective you know what I mean now it's sold billions of copies it's like oh actually we did think oh yeah we thought it was really really great we were just told to write that um whereas everybody kind of loved it really um and it was a game changer for the band so uh like they were banned from playing in la right we talked about that because of the gang stuff the success of this record yeah directly led to their first live show in la for years that's so interesting because now they were popular now that is similar to the bush thing isn't it a little bit someone's doing in fact you know about turning about face a little bit it is a little bit yeah yeah but um and then they went out on like a bunch of different tours they were um they were out touring with a whole bunch of uh you know um not lollapaloo's i'm trying to think of the um oh i can't think of the tour they went on um but yeah anyway they they went out on a on a like it's a big one with all that there's a load of them wasn't there yeah i'm skimming down my list because i definitely included it but i can't see it um but yeah they were uh i wanted to say lollapalooza but it might have been a different one that might be a bit later um but they were out opening for they toured with uh queensrike on the empire tour and they they were out with uh the big four relentlessly on on their shows um uh was it clash of the titans i mean clash of the titans i think it was clash of the titans anyway they they were they were doing big they were out doing uh big big big shows uh which i think is really really cool um things you might not know about this album um uh it was grammy nominated yeah they lost out to metallica this was in 1991 um but yeah it's it's it's bonkers a band with the background that st had got was grammy nominated i think that's i think it's really really interested yeah um uh this was their first gold album the first that it was their second record that went gold um the first one was controlled by hatred uh feel like shit deja vu which was an ep yeah i really like that record too um but gold is 500 000 copies um so for an album that kind of it's pretty well known yeah yeah didn't didn't sell uh didn't sell that really um there was a home video version so in 1990 they released a vhs home video titled lights camera suicidal as a companion to the album um i said that was quite common i searched for this and i can't find like anything yeah i looked on ebay i looked everywhere i looked on discogs yeah that's so interesting because there were those those um video companions where it was like it was a collection of music videos and interviews wasn't it ordinarily like i remember there was a crossroads one for bon jovi but this one was like the mtv videos and then bits of talking yeah not much like like 90 percent of it was just the video yeah this yeah it's so similar there was so there was it's quite fashionable i think to do that yeah yeah i suppose it's an extra bit of merch isn't it it's an extra yeah i suppose you know way of um i suppose yeah um uh the other fun bit here is that uh money uh never uh like it it didn't chart in the us uh but it did in the uk um so that kind of uh you know uh you know uh uh send me your money uh it didn't it's weird because it's about televangelists and we didn't have them in the uk no no but it's a we i don't know there's like um satirical side to it maybe that seemed to land pretty well here and didn't land quite so well i suppose it yeah in the us um yeah interesting um i look a bit about a sense of humor there isn't there maybe maybe yeah well anthrax did that anthrax had that sense of humor and they they i think they were like landed those those humorous songs landed better here than they did over in the states as well which is it's a bit interesting um i look to where i've been used in uh tv and movies and stuff um i found a skateboarding video right uh by danny way i don't know who danny way is apparently he's a famous skateboarder um so he used it beavis and butthead yeah so there was a an episode called door to door um which is is uh is quite cool um and they used um uh send me your money for that one um and again i all i could find really like was just reams and reams of of um references of it being used on headbangers ball yeah um they were big big fans of it um tons of after i mean after the uh this album uh more lineup changes so rj herrera left uh the band um they brought in josh freese for the drums yeah but that was a young josh freese then very young josh freese straight out of the vandals at that point would go on to play for a perfect circle nine inch nails guns and roses yeah the period of guns and that decade of guns and roses that that would they're in they're in linton town hall josh freese would be in there um guns and roses paramour sting weezer and obviously foo fighters yeah more recently yeah uh which didn't they do a swap with another bat they did a swap with nine nine inch nails didn't they uh so i think isn't josh freese playing yeah well josh yeah josh freese was nine inch nails drummer yeah forever yeah he went to join the food fighters and has then kind of said dave can i go back and play with nine inch nails this is boring or something like that and then so he's now back in the nine inch nails drummer yeah it's gone for a few fighters yeah yeah yeah it's interesting swapsies drum swapsies it was a lovely article from josh freese and basically just saying look i said i just feel so at home playing these nine inch nails um songs um that it was like you know it was like made my entire life better from from doing those rather than doing what's doing the food fighters not that the food fighters tracks were bad or i didn't like you know none of that they these it's just that these like they resonate with me in such a way yeah and i don't know i just i see that's interesting because the media spin on that was that somehow dave growling kicked him out yeah i don't i mean maybe badly you know i didn't you know i think a lot of a lot of times these things are mutual yeah agreements they're like conversations like look that's not really working yeah i'm not kind of feeling that either yeah but we're still mates yes and maybe you know maybe i i i don't know but unless you're the who or spinal tap or spinal tap yeah we haven't seen that yet no i've got to go see yeah it's out it's probably finished now oh no that could have been our christmas film we should have a day off and go and see it yeah we should do i don't know you're one of the charities that you're part of we should do a christmas do where we go to watch final tap and then everyone will complain yeah it'd be great uh art of yeah so the art of rebellion in 1992 came after this one that i think is a really great record as well um it's getting more um commercial yeah so the step after this it gets like a lot of these thrash bands the production just got a bit bigger and a bit better and the more layers and more compressors and um yeah and it's either there were some uh big singles nobody hears and i hate you better were massive off that off that record yeah yeah um and then and then that i think it's off the back of that that led to the breakup and then like mike was just like i was just getting too big now yeah yeah like this yeah reminded me hugely reading that about uh skin talking about skunk and nancy yeah just like coming from brixton and having this you know um like like always fighting against or you always always going against the the current against the grain kind of thing yeah and being an underground yeah person always being alt something yeah yeah and all of a sudden in this massive band that were being asked to play on top of the pops and yeah yeah and she was just like this it doesn't feel right it's not the right thing we had to like pull the plug on it it wasn't doing anybody any good and it was interesting listening to mike mule it felt really the same thing just like this isn't me it's and i don't you know this isn't you know i would imagine the record company were pressuring them really hard yeah bigger and more songs and more interviews and yeah i know we spoke about it before but that was that was you know probably what happened with kirk with nivana yeah absolutely absolutely yeah i mean well you saw it to a degree didn't you because they did never mind um and then and then you had sort of more nastier sounding music to try and yeah to kind of unpick almost the damage that he felt he'd done to his reputation yeah um and then it's it's worth pointing out as well had uh infectious grooves around this time as well so just kind of after uh this so 91 93 you had infectious grooves which was mike muir and um uh rob chihiro yeah uh but it is interesting they there was this side project and like as st kind of died and it was like mike had almost killed it that sort of came through yeah exactly so it was kind of kind of there um and we've talked about this a little bit as well i'm going to i'm going to talk about it here uh so dave lombardo joined in 2016 so when he left slayer yeah dave seemed to play for every band on the planet it was like a testament for a while he's an st for a while um he's got a bunch of other uh bands like rusty uh uh film and um i'm trying to think of all he's in tons of other bands doesn't he yeah um uh but anyway he was the drummer and uh he played on a record called world gone mad so if you've not caught up with st lately and you remember this record yeah uh 2016 uh uh album called uh world gone mad really good really cool record quite punky not it's not quite as i would i would say it's more produced than this but it's got this real dry punk punky yeah yeah kind of thrashy edge to it i it's one of my favorites i really really like that um hung around for a while and then went off he did uh did stuff with testament and did i don't know what dave lombardo's doing yeah yeah but he's i'm sure he's doing something awesome um and then in 2018 um i in 2018 i shot the dillinger final tour and that was awesome um dillinger escape plan their guitarist ben wineman uh went to to join suicidal tendencies so he's now right yeah now the way he plays guitar is uh very vigorous yeah he is uh you know there's a lot of movies the guitar is never where it's supposed to be yeah i mean the guitar is always over his head or it's swinging around or he's leaping off stuff um and i wasn't sure how that would work but watching uh live footage of ben with st it just scary oh it just works it's he i think he pulls out that um that hardcore um i don't know that that that dna that was in the band way back in the 80s you know and it kind of pulls that out of even even the new stuff which i think is excellent um remasters reissues and stuff there aren't any which is brilliant um i i don't not that i know of anyway i don't believe there are any i had i had a good poke around there's some um there's some reissues of the vinyl so there's i think there's like a 30th anniversary version that i looked around um which i don't know it didn't look like it'd been remastered no it's just this is the original i think the original version just pressed on modern thick vinyl yeah um if you like that kind of thing um and yeah and that's about it really um for me this is i'm going to this is timeless this record yeah yeah it is a timeless piece of what i would consider thrash crossover thrash yeah kind of hardcore to thrash but it's for me it's stood up really well i think the lyrics a lot of albums around this time the lyrics don't stand up particularly well um i think this one does i think they're fairly universal themes though aren't they it's all about speaking truth to power yeah all of it seems to be about speaking truth to power it lands and for me it lands really really well production is authentic uh it's it's you know okay it's not as you know it's not it's not uh like a massive sounding you know perfectly produced trivium record yeah yeah but this authenticity to this yeah it sounds like it sounds super believable i i i would imagine that it wasn't done to click i would imagine that it's um you know uh i i think this one's got you know i think their early records wouldn't have had compressors on them yeah yeah yeah um but i think this one does i think there's some compression here and i think there's some you know fancy tools happening yeah um but just enough you know just enough to take the bite away from the um like that that hardcore sound that they had before um and just to make it so that it's you know like a casual listener is going to get sucked into this record yeah whereas perhaps like the earlier eps you know you just bitey enough to keep you away yes yeah yeah yeah but i love this one i'm very pleased we've done it and that's that's me done i'm done for facts i've i've i've i've that's it i've i've done all the things now i don't know what do you know i know you're gonna say you're gonna say let's play a record and then let's talk about what's next yes i don't know well i reckon while we're playing the record we'll have a chat about it and figure it out yeah go on then go then go then go then go then go then go then go then go then go go then go then go then go then go then go then go then go then go then go then go then go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go A moon full of people Can't nobody hear me Can't nobody help me I'm alone, not just me Someone to take my hand and pick me up when I'm feeling down Someone to take my heart and give it a hold Someone to be with me And every given time put it down in no land Someone to be with me when I'm alone I know it's the way I live It's not the way you want it, but I know I can't give it I know it's the way I live And it doesn't quite as bad as a person not to know So I've been editing And we're supposed to have a discussion about what we're doing next The cleansing He's figured it out Good, right, that's it It is one of I always say it's one of my favourite This is one that I would You know the Desert Island Discs This will be under my arm And we haven't done a prong one in this format yet I've not done any prong albums ever Prong are one of my all-time favourite bands They're a band that I absolutely I listen to prong all the time And you know, we've talked about this before But you know, if I'm in a meeting Or you're in like a conference or whatever And stuff's happening and I'm not that interested Prong goes on Prong riffs Oh, you turn on internal prong That's what happens in my brain Internal prong It's like my brain just goes I have no idea what's going on I'm going to do the riff from Snap your fingers, snap your neck now And that's what happens And I have no Like I have no involvement in it It's just like No, we're doing prong riffs now And then you go Neil, what do you think about it? And I'm like I have no idea what's going on And you have to You know, you have to do that Could someone just Repeat that for me? Yeah, I just I lost the thread a tiny bit But yeah Absolutely, genuinely But left on my own devices If there's no If it's a very quiet room And I'm not that engaged In what's happening Yeah Prong riffs Prong's the one Prong riffs in my brain Makes me happy All the time I love Absolutely love They're from New York Tommy Victor 1994 This album Yeah Of The Cleansing January 25th, 94 There's For me There's a really interesting Tonal difference Yeah Between stuff that's recorded On the east coast And the west coast Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah There's a harder Like edge Yeah To it Do you know what I mean In like tonality Of recording But also like in the lyrics And in the way Like just where it all came from There's a It's a different attitude So you can hear the place In the sound I think so, yeah I think you can Yeah There's very much Something going on here Like kind of anthrax Were They're kind of this This neck of the woods For recording They would go and record In New York as well I don't know See isn't that interesting Because aren't they from The San Francisco area Or have I got that wrong Oh I can't remember I'm pretty sure They recorded in New York They're recording in New York But on the bands From that other side Oh they're all over the place Oh I see Right, right But it's about where they Where they did the tracking Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah But yeah There's a thing With East coast band I think East coast band Especially From this area From New York Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, they've got this Kind of harder Harder Just the wrong word to it But they're I don't know I'm going to have to listen I'm going to listen to it More analytically And see if I can figure out What it is But there's a There's a thing There's a There's a bit of DNA In here Yes That separates them From Elsewhere And the production's Interested on this one as well But we'll talk about that Next week Wicked So thanks for joining us Thank you Thanks for getting this far Thank you Thanks for staying with us After we didn't do it Last night And now we're doing it now But you wouldn't of course Know that we didn't do that But we told you That we didn't do it So that We'll be listening to this In the future But in the past It didn't work out For the first time So we're in the present Which is now But it's the past for you It all Wibbly wobbly liby wimey stuff It's one of my favourite Doctor Who lines How nerdy is that You have to have a favourite Doctor Who line Yeah I think I think to be Like to be nerdy To be in the club You have to have A favourite bit Of Hitchhiker's Guide To the Galaxy Yeah You have to have An opinion On which is better Star Wars or Star Trek And I think you have To have a favourite line From Doctor Who And there's probably Other things you have To have as well You have to know The square root of two Yeah And I think that's But I don't know Like there's a mixture Of that kind of stuff Yeah yeah yeah And you have to You have to know Those things That like It's like You know when you join A crappy group on Facebook And it says You have to answer Oh yeah those questions They're the questions You've got to answer Yeah yeah To be in the gang Yeah yeah There we go then Favourite bit of Favourite bit of Hitchhiker's Guide To the Galaxy I love that We should have a podcast I could totally do Yeah A podcast on Hitchhiker's Guide To the Galaxy Yeah yeah yeah And we just turn up Every week and just talk About a different bit Of Hitchhiker's Guide I love that What would you call it Hitchhiker's Guide Hitchhiker's Guide To Hitchhiker's Guide To the Galaxy Yeah yeah Yeah I think we should just do it I think it'd be It would be I have to read it again It's been years Since I've read it Oh you do The BBC Yeah I'll bring it in If you've not got A copy of it Yeah yeah The BBC Audio version of it The 80s BBC Audio version That is the de facto Yeah Version Don't read it No It's one of the few times Where The book doesn't The written word Just doesn't do it Just You need to go back It's the Radiophonic Workshop You've got to be in there You have to go That is the way If you've never listened To Hitchhiker's Guide You say I'm on it now I'm doing the podcast now If you've never done it Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy The BBC website Did You could go and You could go and stream it Like on If you had a TV license Or just lie And say you've got one I don't think they'd come and check Just do that And you can go and And they had it You can go and listen to it But it's the It's the original radio series From the BBC I think 1980 Whatever Like 88 Or whatever Yeah And that's it And then there's There's a famously Five part trilogy Yeah The first three are Phenomenal And the last two Are a little bit weird But those first three bits Of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Are That's what you would send to aliens Yeah Do you know what I mean Yeah That's what I would send I would just be like You know Why is the human race Just first three bits Of Hitchhiker's Guide It's brilliant Yeah It covers politics It covers It covers everything It's got pubs It's got diggers It's got How we think aliens will be It's got council Yeah Who getting in the way Yeah It's so good Yeah And there we go then Adams was brilliant Yes he was Shall we do one Let's do one Let's off Alright off bye See you bye