Show Notes
When Tool made a debut that refused to sound like 1993 or anyone else
Hosts: Neil & Chris
Duration: ~93 minutes
Release: 6 October 2025
Episode Description
Neil and Chris wrap up their dual-Maynard trilogy with Tool's April 1993 debut, a record that arrived in the shadow of grunge and nu-metal but carved out its own menacing, atmospheric space. Produced by the legendary Sylvia Massey, Undertow is bone-dry, tightly miked, and built on organic dynamics instead of compression, giving it a raw, live feel that stands apart from the thick, polished records of its era. The hosts dig into Danny Carey's polyrhythmic mastery, Adam Jones' stop-motion video wizardry, and Maynard's tightly controlled vocals, all layered over soundscapes that feel more like movements than traditional rock songs.
Along the way, Neil reveals his obsession with warm worms (metre-long hot water bottles, naturally), the hosts debate whether Tool fans qualify as a cult, and Chris laminates his son's homework at the last possible second. They also explore how a proggy, atmospheric debut somehow broke through on the Lollapalooza circuit, turning Tool into a phenomenon that only grew with each release. From piano destruction and Henry Rollins cameos to censored rib-cage artwork and the mysteries of mille-feuille, this episode flows like the record itself: unpredictable, immersive, and impossible to turn off.
What You'll Hear:
- Why Undertow sounds thin until you crank it, then reveals its full dynamic range and atmospheric power
- Sylvia Massey's production philosophy: getting the band in the right creative space, not chasing perfection
- The story behind Disgustipated, featuring shotguns, sledgehammers, and two destroyed pianos
- How Tool's success defied 1993 logic, carving out space in a world dominated by Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and Sepultura
- Danny Carey's drumming reverence, Adam Jones' visual genius, and the rib-cage artwork that got censored
- Neil's warm worm confession, Chris's laminator virginity, and a deep dive into French pastry terminology
Featured Tracks & Analysis:
Sober launched the band with its stop-motion video and hypnotic groove, becoming the breakout single that made Tool unavoidable on MTV. Prison Sex faced censorship but revealed the band's willingness to tackle dark, uncomfortable themes head-on. The hosts discuss the album's dry, punchy production, which contrasts sharply with the reverb-heavy, compressed records of the era. Undertow doesn't smash you in the face, it flows, ebbs, and pulls you into its tight, menacing world. The guitars are fuzzy but controlled, the vocals are miked close without loads of effects, and the time signatures shift without feeling jarring. It's proggy without being widdly-widdly, heavy without being djent, and atmospheric without drowning in layers.
Tangential Gold:
- Neil's warm worm: a metre-long hot water bottle he cuddles like a 70-year-old woman with cold feet
- Chris took Neil's laminator virginity at 8pm on a Sunday for his son's last-minute homework
- The great mille-feuille debate: thousand sheets of wafer-thin French pastry vs marble cake confusion
- Neil's Scottish adventure: the Edinburgh Mile sells anything imaginable, as long as it says Scotland on it
- The Religion Question: Neil doesn't know his own religion, Chris suggests Buddhism (technically a philosophy)
Why This Matters:
Undertow proves that meticulous, atmospheric prog-metal could break through in 1993 without sounding like anything else on the radio. While Metallica headed into Load/Reload territory and grunge dominated the charts, Tool arrived with bone-dry precision, organic dynamics, and a refusal to follow trends. The album's live, uncompressed production lets it breathe in ways compressed records can't, rewarding listeners who turn the volume up and let it envelop them. It's the kind of debut that doesn't feel like a debut, packed with the confidence and cohesion of a band that had been refining their sound for years.
Perfect for: Sylvia Massey disciples, dynamic range defenders, Danny Carey drum nerds, warm worm enthusiasts, lamination evangelists, mille-feuille scholars, Tool cult members (sorry, fans), proggy-without-widdly-widdly appreciators, 1993 revisionist historians, Henry Rollins spoken-word completists, rib-cage censorship historians, Lollapalooza second-stage legends, stopmotion video obsessives, dry production purists, live-feel studio advocates, Edinburgh Mile survivors, religion-agnostic philosophers, cold-feet sufferers, and anyone who thinks pianos deserve to be destroyed with shotguns in the name of art.
Transcript
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We'll be right back. We'll be right back. No, I do. I do. Of all the people I know, it's like, who's got a hot water bottle? It would be you. It's not a hot water bottle. What is it? It's just going to make you laugh. So I've got a bit man flu, so I'm a bit like griff gritty. You are gruff. So it's called a warm worm. And it's like a leg. Really? It's like long. It's like a metre long. And it's like that thick. And you fill it up with hot water. Yeah. And then you... You could like cuddle it. Yeah. So then I call a hot water bottle. Like a massive warm appendage. Yeah, you can only get like a hot water bottle gets you warm in one bit, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you get a whole metre of warmth. Yeah, I get really cold feet. Yeah. Because I'm a 70-year-old woman. And so what I do is I have my warm worm and I fill it with boiling. It's a disease. You know, the big warning. Don't do boiling. Do not use... Because I put boiling water in it. Yeah. And then what I do is I put it like down near my feet. And then as my feet warm, then I slowly kind of move it about a little bit. But that's what I've not used it yet, but I'm a bit close. Is that like when you're officially kind of like, right, it's now autumn? Yeah, it's when my feet hurt. Yeah. You know when I get into bed and I'm like, oh, my feet hurt. So I go and get my warm worm. And then the whole family laugh. That's circulation, isn't it? Yeah. What's wrong with your circulation? Why is your circulation like that? Rubbish. I think it's because I've spent 50 years sitting on my arse. I do do running and things, so I'm not like terrible. And I'm more like, you know, I'm quite capable. But I find when I get into bed, I get really cold. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't like that. But I am like a cat. I'm just like a cat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you have your warm worm. Yeah. I just, I don't, yeah. I don't like dogs. I don't like other people. There's another confession. Yeah. Which is that I took your laminator virginity tonight, didn't I? We've, yeah, my little boy has got a homework. And now that this is, so he's got to give his homework in tomorrow. It's Monday. So what time did you receive this? I was just heading out of the house to see you. And he went, oh, have we got a laminator? I go, what? Oh, have we got a laminator in the garage? He goes, no, we haven't. Well, I need to laminate this. Can you get it laminated? I can find it's like eight o'clock on a Sunday. I mean, what? And then I messaged you and I said, have you got a laminator? And you went, yeah. So we laminated something. We did. We laminated something. It's dead good. It's interesting, isn't it, lamination? It's dead good. Yeah, yeah. I feel that you're laminating everything now. Oh, God. Yeah. I want to go and laminate everything. If you need anything laminating, send it in and we'll do it. We should point out that we're Rufology. Rufology. We are Rufology. And we are. Four minutes. Four minutes in. We're Rufology. I'm Neil. Yes, I'm Chris. And welcome. Welcome. This week. We're doing another Maynard. Maynard. James Keenan. He says Maynard. Maynard. Maynard. Maynard James. That's what he says. Okay, Maynard. We say Maynard. I'd say Maynard. Maynard. I wouldn't even think of going Maynard. Maynard. And yeah, so we're doing Undertow. Yeah. Because we had a fight last week, didn't we? About which one we're going to do. Yeah, it was hard. And then you won. Well, we tossed some keys, didn't we? Yeah, that's the way we fight. And the thing is, my favourite tour record is Lateralist. Yeah. But that's 2001. That's illegal. And our albums have to be 25 years old. And we're not there yet. Next year? Next year? We'll come back and do it. Yeah, next year we could do Lateralist. Because it's interesting. I think it's an interesting check. Because although, like, I mean, tall to tall. Yeah. But what I will say is that they, there was definitely a change. Because I messaged you in this week, because I messaged you in this week, and I said, this isn't as weird as I remember it. yes that's true they did get more weird yeah um so so um even though they did get a piano and smash it and then shoot it with shotguns yeah well so i was just trying to think the lineup changed didn't it so this one the bassist was um uh demore wasn't it and then that changed to uh justin chancellor yeah i think and then but it's weird it's like the the the band that so last week we did perfect circle and that was later we did med and arms that was that was like later that was the back end of the 90s yeah so we're back in like 93 now this is 93 yeah that like it's interesting when you get up to 2001 for lateralist tool tool sound to me like a much more competent band and that's not to say this doesn't no sound competent but they they just seem to get like like better sharper and it's it's it feels to me like they like here they're experimenting and they're doing some really cool stuff and they're doing stuff with like soundscape isn't it yeah this is soundscape as they move on it turns into like music maths a little bit it does but you can't so like there are bits in here where i think oh that sounds weird yeah yeah time signature bits yeah but you're like you're not like i don't know it doesn't feel it doesn't feel like wrong no or anything no no no it feels like well that feels a little bit weird yeah by the time you get to lateralist it it doesn't feel weird no it is weird yes you know the time signature is weird but it doesn't sound it so unless it's tall unless somebody tells you yeah that's a weird time signature yeah yeah lots of people would just be like i don't i don't get it it's just it's just it's just all like that yeah okay i get i get that it you know i get that it's not acdc yeah yeah but it's just like proggy yeah weird proggy stuff right it doesn't sound weird whereas here there are bits and where the times like it's oh that feels a bit not jarring is the wrong word for it but it's like it feels like by the time they get to lateralist they're able to muck about with these weird time signatures and do odd stuff yes yeah and make it sound like a a single yeah yeah yeah it's like oh you know i think they're experimenting and trying to figure out where they are yeah um but i think the thing that makes this special the reason i'm quite pleased that we did this is that like 1993 yeah like like it was it was the back end of nirvana was it so yeah so so you've just gone through um yeah so you've just gone through nirvana yeah and you're kind of in this like post grunge yeah yeah world you're in like so alt rock was like pearl jam and stuff kind of getting big but like heavy music chaos ad yes came out carcass heart work morbid angel did covenant yeah um death did individual thought patterns typo negative nirvana did in utero yeah um um siamese dream yeah uh and anthrax did sound of white noise which you know because they're all of those a thick big thick thick chunky yeah yeah yeah stuff and this is this is quite thin sounding isn't it in comparison but the other thing about this is this like proggy yeah right now proggy music in 93 yeah was widly guitars yeah it was dream theater it was that long yeah it was like all that and then you had if you had a drum kit you had like a million drums yes so it was always like and that was proggy right yeah but then tour came along and and and with this they were soundscapey yeah the the songs were proggy not because of like virtuoso yeah but because the the structure of the song was bonkers yeah yeah and it's riffy yeah but it's but it's not like acdc no no no no it's got this kind of like uh i don't know it's like driving isn't it it's kind of it's like you know like i love watching you play when when you play you you're you're it's like your whole body will play and you kind of ebb and flow with the song right and it's like that it's this it's not even the bits that are like staccato yeah in in undertow it still still flows yeah yeah i know it sounds weird what you're saying but i know exactly what you mean it doesn't stop and start does it it's not like um i'm trying to like periphery or yeah yeah yeah you know these bands that they're a bit like being like uh i don't know i've been punched in the face it's kind of like yeah yeah it's not that genti kind of thing it's no it's not the genti no it's a liquid it's like it feels like it's flowing yeah it's not jagged at all is it no there's no part of this is jagged it's fuzzy it's like a warm worm that's what this is that's the right word for it it's kind of fuzzy it's you know we did mere de noms last week and it's got that's layer on layer on layer that's like this kind of um um you know like you know those french cakes what do they call them french fancies no not french fancy angel cake no but they're french but you know they do these things and they're called like they're they're like every other country than france they're like they're like layers thin tiny thin wafer thin layers wafer thin layers but there's like 100 like like 30 wafer thin layers i've never had this what you're talking about somebody's gonna write in and say it's a thing right yeah yeah mere de noms like that yeah it's these wafer thin layers yeah of things and when you bite into it all together it's like oh that's amazing yeah yeah right this this is no marble cake no layers of like layers of rock eventually you'll need to go for a wee in a bit and i'll look it up um it begins with m yeah i've seen it on a pretentious cooking show um but this isn't this is like it's weird to me this like this so undertow it doesn't it it feels less less layer-y less stuff but it's still very madeira no no where's madeira's from portugal oh is it i'm saying every other country um but anyway this this this i don't know how i don't know quite how how many um like tracks this was recorded over but it doesn't feel quite it's quite live isn't it it's like it's like the four guys in the room playing together yeah yeah uh yeah i think that's what that separates the the those two records for me so murder noms feels like this kind of exquisite layer after layer after layer this feels like a live performance it's got this yeah yeah it's got this yeah melt meal foie meal foie is it mel foie yeah is that what it said yeah yeah meal i've never heard of that in my life well you're from from from south derbyshire oh it's that sort of cake you see what i mean the layer wafer thin yeah yeah yeah like this that's it yeah imagine each one of those is a track yeah chris yes just show me a picture of a cake yeah meal foil or whatever they will be like one one of at least one of our listeners will be from france just like or canada and speak french they speak very good french yeah they they will be unimpressed with this bit yeah me fui do you know like well half of our listeners will be googling what what how do you spell that hang on oh i i'm on google so i can pronounce it what was it m e i l l e four oh foie foie meal foie meal foie meal foie or meal foie yeah or meal free oh i like meal foie the best whatever but oh do you know what it means oh this is this actually does it mean i know we tangent is layered cake no no even better it goes back into exactly what you're talking about listen to this oh go on it translates to thousand sheets or thousand leaves oh so it's like it's like layers of leaves yeah maynard will be listening to this going dickhead comparing my album to a cake but i did sorry about that dude uh but but it but it is it feels you know uh uh medinoms had got this like exquisite layering going on yeah yeah this feels like a live record it feels like this is kind of um you know like you say it's got that delicate kind of soundscape to it there's space in there yeah um there's like there's interesting it has got it's still got that tall rhythmic i know we're talking about yeah it's got the tight it's still got the tight rhythmic stuff tightly miked vocals as well yes yeah so they're full yeah there's not loads of reverbs it's quite dry tightly yeah that's the tall sound the guitars are tight i'm blurting loads tonight sorry it is that's tool yeah tool is bone like mostly bone dry there's not loads of effects and reverbs but at the time this is a big old rock if you know as i'm reading down these albums uh uh sepultura's chaos ad yeah the drum sound in there is really big and yeah yeah kind of roomy and and stuff right and carcasses heart work that's got you know they're big sounding records yeah yeah yeah and this is tight with his tie isn't it this is quite quite dry yeah it's kind of like hardcorey in tonality yeah it's kind of got this um but i think that's kind of what gives this record its tone because it's got a menacing tone to it although it's kind of quite it's not jaggedy like slipknot um but like it's it's got a tone to it like it's got like this kind of hardcore yeah tone to that kind of dry you know when they're like i'm punk when they dry it right up and it's kind of got this do you know what i mean it sounds quite nasty sounding yeah it's just not quite that dry but it's yeah it's not it's not kind of full of reverb and no no it's got a it's got an interesting sound to it i think i mean produced of course by sylvia massey yeah um and it's not very often i have to just point this out it's not very often we say a female name when we're talking about production because it feels like a very male dominated world to me production and mixing and all that yeah i think you're right i think metal is do you remember we we had a radio show and we were being tasked to play more female music yeah um and it occurred to me when when we were getting there i mean there are some really big female names in metal it's not like there aren't any but they're massively outnumbered yeah you know there's this there's significantly more is this quite a male dominated thing i don't know whether that's you know just there are more more blokes like metal or whether it's just you know music in general is yeah yeah he's biased that way but you dead right and especially production yeah it's incredibly rare to to get that but she's done some like i mean her list is it's unbelievable bonkers unbelievable this was her first breakthrough yeah right so 1993 undertow this was the first one she did their ep as well so they did an ep called opiate before this i think there was an ep before that okay yeah yeah and i can't bloody remember it's on set of numbers like 262 blah blah blah blah do you know what let me i'll look in a bit there is there is oh no hang on i did put in a tag hang on uh yeah 72826 it was released on cassette by toolshed music in 1991 so that suggests it's toolshed music is probably their own yeah they just got a load of tapes copied yeah then the rest went out on zoo yeah yeah yeah um but i wanted to look so sylvia massey um if i look at her um because you were saying before that her like the iconic desk of the sound city sound yeah that's her desk yeah yeah yeah i didn't i i don't know whether uh because in the in the documentary from um you man dave growl who i don't know whether we're allowed to like anymore but he's i think it's pretty cool so he he does that and all of the desk all of a lot of that hardware was hers yeah yeah yeah um let me go i'm just going to go through some of the stuff right that she did so um so she did a bunch of stuff back from she started in 1984 where she was an assistant engineer then a co-producer in 86 for um for sea hags uh then she did a whole bunch of stuff in um so she did femme fatale she did joe satrian is surfing with the aliens it's incredible isn't it um exodus pleasures of the flesh in 87 um and then as i look through here she had oh some of the biggest stuff more fun stuff so shake your money maker in 90 yeah that's yeah but she's assistant engineer yeah so she's an assistant engineer yeah yeah yeah and then um there's a couple of here where she's done some mixing so she she mixed a seal um track and then as i'm looking down her list i think this uh for 93 opiate is the production yeah she's the that's the first proper one that she's the uh producer for but then as you go through that list so she did divine intervention in 95 yeah slayer slayer yeah uh skunk and nancy paranoid and sunburnt in 95 great records um she did tom petty and the heartbreakers rem's road movie in 96 um deftones uh can't even breathe single in 97 um then she did pavements uh she was co-producer on that one but then there's like rage against the machine oh this is for the tibetan freedom concert she kind of engineered all of all of that kind of stuff smashing pumpkins um uh credits for for various singles and she's just tons like system of a down marmalade um seven dust singles it's just mad yeah yeah just been around been involved been present got stuff done yeah she was yeah i mean still is i mean she's still got credits up to 2023 yeah and i think the interesting thing about her approach to production is from what i've been listening through this this stuff these interviews and and reading about it it's more about getting the band in like a really creative place yeah and it's not just about recording music and tracking music is actually about kind of getting the band in a particular state um i think that during the recording of undertow we were discussing how to make the world's most obnoxious sound and uh i threw out some ideas of getting an old piano getting getting a piano and lifting it up to the top of a building with a crane and then dropping it and recording that and that should be a really obnoxious sound uh so i went about trying to find a crane company that would do it for for us i knew where to get the pianos these pianos the the uh they're relics that can't be repaired they're totaled basically uh so many of these old pianos can't be repaired so you can get them for you know uh just fifty dollars or such so um but i couldn't get a crane company to to actually do this lifting and dropping so i i bought two two uh pianos we pushed them into the the dock at the back of uh grandmaster's studio and um and we just set out to make the most obnoxious noise ever and whatever would happen with it we we were going to use it or not use it i don't know we we didn't know what it would be like um i uh wanted them to be performing while they were smashing it i provided everybody with uh sledge hammers pickaxes and um there was something else everyone had safety glasses and yeah it was exciting and then danny brought his sawed off shotgun so shooting holes into the piano uh there were two pianos and and uh and uh yeah they were destroyed it was spent a whole a whole afternoon having fun doing that and uh and there is some footage out there of that that whole day that was super fun and then amazingly uh we were able to to sequence that into what is disgustipated on the end of the record and maynard uh performed a uh speaking part over it and uh uh the sequencing was done we took all the sounds and i and and i did little samples of different sounds and sent them over to my friend um eric anist uh his name is uh his stage name is static and um he put together this performance piece that was on the end of the undertow record i think it came out great it's super weird though i mean it's like you know it's like the angel of the war came out of the gate snatching me up from my place of slumber and took me on high and higher still until we moved through the spaces between the air itself and he bumped into a vast farmland of our old midwest and as we descended cries of impending doom rose from the soil one thousand nay a million voices full of fear and terror possessed me then and i begged angel of the lord what are these tortured screens and the angel said unto me these are the cries of the carrots the cries of the carrots you see reverend maynard tomorrow is harvest day and to them it is the holocaust it's a spring for my slumber drenched in sweat like the tears of one million terrified brothers and roared hear me now i have seen the light they have a consciousness they have the life they have the soul damn you let the rabbits wear glasses save our brother's gonna get an amen can i can i get a hallelujah this is is this is this is this is this is this this is this this this is this this this this this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is this is amazing is it's about not remotely musical no but he's about the performance of this getting the artist in the right space yeah to produce their best stuff yeah you know it's not like um you know your bob rocks yeah um who you know were um meticulous about about getting the thing perfect and it down right or not lang even this kind of you know you've got to play a million times until it's perfect yeah he he you know um rick rubin was far more about like you know it's it's uh what was that he's got that brilliant quote hasn't he about you know the the best take is the one where you are almost out of control you only just managed to get it done that's the take that we want kind of thing that we want kind of thing. that's the take that we that we want kind of thing and it was it was about this um it was about the art it was about you know it's not about it being you've just summarized it perfectly it's not about the being to click it's not about being perfect to the computer saying oh that was but yeah on you know it was it was about this um expressive nature of getting getting it out and and the and the art of you know the song so yeah yeah as soon as i saw that those two were connected connected yeah yeah that's it yeah that is yeah she's come from the school of rick rubin effectively or at least kind of they were in the same space yeah i'm exploring the same yeah exactly i think that i think that he and her just were like you say on the same wavelength yeah and that rick you know rick rick was never going to work with death leopard he's never going to be able to figure that out yeah um um but bands like tall it was able to you know get behind this um this the expression that they were trying to pull through but but without getting into the you know the the deep the technical details yeah of that getting them into a space but the thing i hadn't realized and and it really connected a lot of dots for me with this record is the fact that she did try to do a lot of it live yeah a lot of it was kind of stand up and done in a live space yeah yeah get the band feeling right then hit the button yeah whereas you know we we talked about murder noms last week for me that was not no like if pad's just playing all those violins yeah yeah she ain't gonna do that live in one take you know that's multi-layer that's have like 12 violins on an arm but it but it's interesting isn't it it's still they've like we talked about last week there is uh this similarity there's a tonality where you think oh actually that there is definitely a um you can tell they're kind cousins yes do you know i mean yeah and i think some of it's that tightly miked yeah maynard's vocals um but but there is definitely something that connects where like mad and noms wasn't and and this came from yes yeah even though the the production almost like the dna the dna of the sound is different yeah and you know and this this this has got quite a live punchy sound to it um you know it sounds it's interesting this this has got almost like a um like a demo yeah feel to it you know what i mean it's not that it's like roughly recorded but it doesn't sound like super polished no but you have to bear in mind like like hysteria was done in 87 which sounded like perfect brian adams was banging stuff out you had like um what adrenalized from deaf leper came out in 92 yeah those records sound like exquisite you go back and they're perfect yeah there's nothing on them that's a little bit jaggedy or or whatever whereas this has got this has got like a um a word it's like a i don't know what the word is it's like a it's raw yeah it sounds analog yeah it's got this kind of analog sound to it where you know if you i i i mean this may have been done to click but i don't think it was no it doesn't feel like it was done i don't know how you would you know the bits where it kind of the timing changes yeah yeah i don't know whether they just do that yeah there's no way it's it's they're playing together aren't they yeah they're playing together and they're really tight you can imagine you can imagine you can imagine somebody with a metronome just just suddenly ramping up going uh but yeah i i it's it's got a cool like uh organic is the word i'm looking for yeah yeah yeah it's it you know what i mean it doesn't doesn't feel like there's a computer here yeah you know keeping everybody in time kind of thing you kind of like you say you kind of get get this feeling like it it evolved that the the track and the song has evolved and the timing changes and the structure changes nobody likes to be put in a in a pigeonhole of sorts you know but i guess we are kind of kind of metal kind of grunge kind of dry a heap slash grateful dead vibe a little bit of steve martin banjo music slipped in there so so so so so so so so so so there's a there's a there's a shadow just behind me shouting every step i take making every promise empty pointing every finger at me waiting like a stalking butler who upon the finger rest murder now the path of my sweet just because the sun has come jesus wants to fucking wrestle something but the path of done jesus wants to fucking wrestle something but the path of done why can't we drink forever i just want to stop this forever why can't we drink forever i just want to stop this forever i am just a worthless lawyer i am just an imbecile i will not complicate you trust in me and fall as well i will find a center in your life i will chew it up and leave i will work to elevate you just enough to bring it down mother mary won't you whisper something but the path of done mother mary won't you whisper something but the path of done mother mary won't you whisper in your life? mother mary won't you whisper in your life? mother mary won't you whisper in your life? mother mary won't you whisper in your life? mother mary won't you whisper in your life? mother mary won't you whisper in your life? mother mary won't you whisper in your life? mother mary won't you whisper in your life? mother mary won't you whisper in your life? mother mary won't you whisper in your life? mother mary won't you whisper in your life? mother mary won't you whisper in your life? mother mary won't you whisper in your life? mother mary won't you whisper in your life? mother mary won't you 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life? mother mary won't you whisper in your life? he didn't read it how many volumes his bit from his whole album? that's how to solve it i think so i think it's like the um uh oh god what was the uh we're going to get down this in my head i know what this is and i can't the words aren't coming to me um uh the uh oh what's his name um right this is going to be quite hard yeah he he was in um top gun right who was the man in top gun? tom cruise yeah end of the world movie oh yeah yeah war of the worlds war of the worlds yeah um that don't they dive of the cold? yes could have shortcutted that yeah just Henry Rollins just played him Henry Rollins bit on bottom I love you. I love you. But I feel like I'm the part that you've made me lose. Killed. And threatened. Weakness. It makes me feel ugly. I'm on my knees and burn in my pants and mose on. You lift. Set my head off. I'm dead. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. She lives up, she lives up, she lives up She lives up, she lives up, she lives up in the bottle Thank you. If I let you, you would make me destroy myself. In order to survive you, I must first survive myself. And I can sink no further. And I cannot forgive you. There's no choice but to confront you. To engage you. To erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I've used my mistakes against you. There's no other choice. I'm shameless now. I'm meaningless now. I'm willing now. I'm knowing now. But my soul must be iron. And my fear is naked. Naked and fearless. And my fear is naked. Dead. Dead. Dead inside. Dead inside. Dead inside. Dead inside. Dead inside. Dead inside. Nameless now. Shade lost now. Nothing now. No one, no And you save me Naked, no Fearless, no Naked, no Fearless, no Fearless, no Fearless, no Fearless, no Fearless, no Dead inside Dead inside Dead inside Dead inside Dead inside Dead inside Dead inside Dead inside Dead inside Dead inside Hater gives me alive Happiness gives me alive Weakness gives me alive Can't keep me alive It's better Weakness gives me alive The other interesting thing with this Is like we're going back to these You know these kind of early 90s and stuff I was talking to somebody I had to go to Scotland for work We're going to talk about that in a minute as well Because that was bonkers I enjoyed that a lot But so I was talking to somebody Much much younger Like in early 30s And we were talking about You know albums and blah blah blah blah blah And I was saying that we were going to do Undertow this week And she was like oh yeah You know it's a cool record I'm not a big tool fan But I kind of know of that record kind of thing And she says there's a lot of nostalgia back for the You know for the 90s and the internet And all of that Yeah yeah yeah I was like 93 The internet didn't exist No We didn't have the internet Yes In 93 Yeah yeah yeah Like not even I mean I was at the cutting edge Of that world We Like maybe You didn't have the World Wide Web But we had dial up internet You had Yeah yeah BBSs and stuff But you know You weren't like on Google No No no no no no no You weren't You certainly weren't getting music It was Alta Vista first anyway wasn't it Yeah yeah You weren't getting music from it at all MP3 I might be wrong I don't think MP3s Wasn't a thing no That was kind of a lot later Like lame Yeah yeah yeah And stuff didn't really come through Until about 95 I don't think Maybe Maybe a bit before But you know It was a different Completely different world Yeah yeah yeah This was tapes Tape trading Yeah yeah It was It was You know You were copying stuff onto tape Yeah You had your Walkman But it was fascinating It was really interesting Yeah yeah yeah To have that conversation with somebody Yes That wasn't there Didn't see it Yeah yeah yeah Almost like couldn't imagine a world Where the internet wasn't Yeah yeah yeah Do you know what I mean And it was Well I was even thinking about You know Before we've recorded tonight We were downstairs here At the library In the studio And you were talking about Some of the stuff That you've managed to pull together This week using AI Oh god yeah yeah And like meetings And you know Annotating stuff And you just think One day that's going to be Like at the minute It's blowing our minds Yeah yeah It's totally blowing our minds The fact that You know I had a meeting tonight Yeah I didn't even have to write anything down It summarised it all It summarised it all And then it sent everyone the message With the summary of the meetings But it's like We do like for the For the description for the show Yeah I just take We get the transcript So we do We record the show We do the transcript And I just dump it into ChatGPT And say just Summarise this Summarise this waffle And it comes back And I go Oh that was interesting And it reminds me And then I kind of Sketch it together But yeah It was I think it's Easy to forget Yeah yeah yeah The world In which this album Came out Yes Into You know It was It was It was It was Like a Radically different world I want to talk a little bit About the Edinburgh Mile Yes Okay yeah Because I walked on it This week So I We live in the Midlands And I went to Scotland That's For For Americans As you're looking at this Like because my My mate was with me And It was like I've got a lot of Americans listening Yeah Hello Americans Hello Americans Hello America Hello America Definitely Good Anyway So Most of my US colleagues Flew into Heathrow Yeah They dossed about In London For a few days And then They got on A train Yeah And went up to Scotland Yeah yeah yeah Which is great And they're like Why does it take Like seven hours Yeah The slow train That kind of Meanders up there And they're like You're in In the US I could get from One end of the country To the other Really easily And on the map When you look on the map Yeah Like London to Scotland It's not very far Yes Like you could put Your finger over that Yeah Not very big Yeah So A They had to deal with that Kind of whole Why does it take so long To get everywhere Yeah Which was good fun And then We all walked up The Edinburgh Our hotel was Like one end of that And the Meeting The meeting space Was at the other And I've never seen Anything quite like it Imagine Anything Yeah Absolutely anything If you Let's say you wanted to buy Like a stuffed doll Of Elvis On a sheet With a sword Yeah Right They will sell it On the edge of a mile They will sell it Yeah But And there's a big but Yeah It will say Scotland on it Yeah So if you want anything You know like an alien Like having sex With a piano Yeah As long as it says Scotland on it Yeah Yeah It's there You'll find it down there Yeah Yeah Anything you can imagine Yeah Scotland on it Edinburgh mile Yeah Wow It's a bonkers place Yeah Yeah I loved it It was great I kind of got You know when you get A bit carried away Yeah I went in all of the Like the shops Did you buy vinyl I didn't I didn't have time There was a lovely Vinyl shop actually And I did I did kind of poke my head In the window But it was closed When I was there So I went to Dubwreck The other night Which is in Derby Oh yeah It's cool there Yeah yeah And Jay's done a really Good job there And he's And they've just opened A new bit Which is a shop Oh And it sells Kind of new Or pre-owned vinyl Has he got a copy Of the 2017 Re-release Of Superstar College I looked Did you I looked for you I thought Oh you know I might Happenstance You know I might chance upon it And no I didn't It wasn't in there But I did I've I've never This is right So I've never Been in a record shop Yeah And just flicked Through the records I loved that Like I used to do With CDs Yeah But I was too young To do the vinyl thing Where it was all vinyls That was school I went through Every single one The whole rack You can't help But lift them up As well Yeah yeah yeah You can't help Like you've seen The album cover A million times Yeah And you'll get to some And I still lift it out Yeah yeah And I still lift it out And I still flip it around And I still read the back And I still Yeah I've got a copy I've got it I don't need to lift it up I better still do it I still pick it up And look at it It was beautiful I was so relaxed I was so just I could just do this for hours Like just looking through these And not even intend to buy it Just let them flick through Just looking See what I've got It's so nice And then you pick And it's in the album art Really nice and big Yeah And they were in nice wallets And there was one that I can't remember What it was now I said oh I'll have to get that For Neil Yeah Is that like 20 quid Yeah And then I thought Oh no I might already have it Or one of those sort of things 20 quid's about right for me Yeah 20 quid is about right And I normally do like One a month Yes I kind of go Yeah yeah yeah But I've I've taken I bought When I kind of got back Into vinyls a few years ago I bought some of the re-releases Yeah And I've gone off it a bit Yeah yeah yeah yeah And I much prefer now Getting the originals Yeah Do you know what I mean Yeah It's weak Like some of them Like that Superstar car wash Yeah Stupid money Yeah yeah yeah There are others as well That I just think are bonkers Like so like The I bought Ride the I bought the An original copy Of Ride the Lightning It cost me like 22 quid Or whatever Yeah Now they're like 100 quid Yeah yeah yeah For these original copies Rain in Blood I've got two copies of I bought two copies of Raining Blood I bought the first one I think cost me like 25 quid And it was But it's missing What I really wanted Inside It's like the Def Jam Yes You've got this like Inner sleeve Yeah yeah yeah It's like a red Like it's like red text And a white thing And that But that's what I kind of Really wanted That I remember Yeah yeah yeah And I kind of wanted The first copy I bought Didn't have it And I was too I didn't look You know when you pick it up I picked it up It didn't look And then And then bought another copy I paid a bit more For like 35 quid or whatever They're over 100 quid now Yeah yeah yeah And like 100 quid I just don't I'm not paying 100 quid for them No no So But you get massive bargains Like I bought I really like God properly off topic now But I really like There's a guy called Tuck Smith He's in a band called The Biters He's in a band now Called Tuck Smith And The Wrestler's Hearts So a proper You know Like floor stampy Rock and roll Yeah yeah yeah I think it's really Really cool And there I bought Earache Did their first two albums For 8 quid Yeah So I got two Two records For 8 quid Yeah The postage cost me more Than the records Pretty much And I don't know There's something There's something Really lovely about I'd sit down In my record collection And you'd just Thumb your way through them Yeah it's nice And you'd just Oh yeah I fancy Because I never Because it was always Like I suppose When this album came out It was either cassette Or CD Wasn't it Mostly CD Yeah yeah For me this was Like a lot of these I'm going to refer to it As like extreme Yeah I don't mean it like that I don't mean it It wasn't like You know Bolt thrower and stuff It wasn't like Kind of super fast But it was You know You weren't This wasn't Pearl Jam No exactly You weren't in like You know Selling millions of copies These would have come out On cassette Yeah And you'd have bought it On cassette Yeah Or yeah Or you may have had it On CD Yeah you might have had it On CD Yeah Or you'd have recorded it Off CD Yeah But yeah It was It would have been Like probably those Later 80s ones Would have been on vinyl Yeah But then there was That big crossover Like I would have been At college from Like 90 89, 90, 91, 92 Yeah yeah yeah I don't think I listened To anything other than cassettes No no No well I just remember My dad having vinyls And they were in the This little cubby hole Thing under the stairs Yeah There was a rack of vinyl In there that my dad had And it was like Had a few things But that was always The old music Old music Yeah yeah That was That wasn't You know That wasn't like Stuff that I was Interested in listening to That was old music And it's just so interesting That now that old music Is you know Collector item Or you know That sort of thing But do you know I don't know what I was Saying to you That I saw a guy Down the road Had what looked like An original copy Of Dark Side of the Moon Like an original Original pressing Like a four Five hundred Quid pressing Sorry It was a Freud Pink Freud Oh Pink Freud Dark Side of your mum I messaged this guy And I was like Can you Because he had a picture Of the run out On side A Yes Which is really well known Right This is like This is a record That's worth a fortune Yeah And like you don't I don't know Like you don't Come across them Do you know what I mean Like everybody knows About these things And I messaged this dude And I was going like I think you told me This story before I said is this really He said yeah yeah It's a I think it's quite an early copy Yeah And he got it listed For twenty quid Yeah yeah yeah And I was like It's like ten miles away And I was like I said I'm going to Can I come He got a load of other records They got like some Wasp records and stuff He was like Can I come and have a look And he's like Well yeah you can do If you want to I said can you send me A copy of like The side two run out Yeah And then he deleted All the pictures Oh You know I mean At this point Like scam Yeah this feels a bit weird Yeah I don't know Like scamming me out Of twenty quid Yeah yeah yeah Do you know what I mean It just feels a bit Dickhead There are some bad people There are Bad bad people Of all the people Like sad people That collect vinyls Yeah Do you know what I mean Yeah yeah Go and scam somebody Called Josh Yeah He was like He played American football And was big Don't pick on like You know We've been bullied Us nerds Have been bullied We've been bullied Enough already Don't pick on us Yeah It's not fair Dickhead Anyway What's next Shall we do some facts We shall My tablet's not ready Yeah Which reminds me Which reminds me Actually When When When When I was a youngling In In my job And I had to I had to be taught How to go and Deliver training I had a mentor Called Sean Sean was a magician And a stand up comedian Really funny guy Yeah And he was teaching me How to deliver this Like training content Right Yeah You have to keep it engaging And blah blah blah Anyway We come back after lunch one day And the digital whiteboard thing That we were using Was just broken Didn't work Yeah And so everyone was Kind of sitting down Just turn it off And turn it on again We did all that Turn it off Turn it back on again It didn't work And I was like Did you do Henry Rollins on it Yeah So I'm going Dude what are we going to do Yeah And he said Well look I've messaged the support guys They'll come and figure it out In a minute Yeah We just need to pad Right So watch this So he just stood up And started to do magic tricks And tell jokes Yes Yeah And then he did that It kept him entertained For like an hour Yeah Dude came in Did some stuff And made it work And then And I was like Sitting there And he was going He looked at me like There you go But I'm not I'm not a magician I'm not a magician Or a comedian I can't do any of that Yeah Yeah And he was just like Well you know Find your thing to do What What to me Worst mentor ever Very funny guy I love Sean Sean if you listen to this You're awesome Oh and also Sean was my mentor For public speaking And we were We're in Prague And I stood up In front of like I don't know 500 people To talk about this thing First thing I was doing Properly crapping myself Yeah yeah yeah Sean was with me In the front row And I could see him Right It was great And then it's There's other people There's another guy Speaking before me And it's my turn And I get up And I'm dead Dead nervous And I look to my mentor Sean Yeah I can't see Sean Sean's gone And I thought Oh maybe he's gone To the toilet Or something Yeah And I start speaking And I'm like Really nervous And I kind of get Part way through it Kind of thing And then I look up And we're in like A hotel lobby And I suddenly look up And I realise The bar's open Yeah And Sean's at the bar He's basically Just abandoned me And gone for a pint Excellent So there you go As long as you've got A mentor who Who does that You're in good Right facts So released 6th of April 1993 Yes We talked about Other stuff That was released In 1993 It was a massive Massive year First full length Record on Zoo Entertainment Distribution by BMG A couple of EPs Before that So they did Opia and that Other one That I've forgotten The name of The numbers The numbers one Produced by Sylvia Massey With tour We have already Discussed how Awesome Sylvia Massey Is If there's one Thing you do If there's one Thing you do After or Stop now Go and look At Sylvia Massey's Wikipedia page There will be An album on there That you love That she's done She's just epic Yeah Runtime is 69 minutes That's long for you Although the album's Not 69 minutes It's got that long It's not even a Secret track is it It's like fuzzy It's got Disgustipated On there Now it's interesting A lot of the CDs Like Like flood and Disgustipated Kind of get Yeah Wedged together And Disgustipated It's like this Hidden track Kind of thing So it's a bit Weird depending on The pressing That you have Of the album Oh right Because at the end On the version That we've got There's the static Noise at the end Of Disgustipated Which leads to A little spoken Bit at the end That's it Yeah Yeah But so on some Versions It's flood Yeah And then that That plays out Oh wow Yeah yeah Just a bit weird Line up Maynard James Keenan On the vocals Adam Jones Guitar Danny Carey Drums And Paul D'Amour On bass This is the only Album with Paul D'Amour Is it Okay right Right I think Danny Carey Is spoken about With such reverence In the drum community The thing is Like I played The drums at school Yeah And we played drums On songs like Poison Yeah And I found that Quite hard Yes Right Yeah This No Not a hope Yeah Not a hope I don't think I could Do you know What I mean Like Yeah I don't know Drumming for me Is like a feel thing I don't think You could feel Your way through this It's so There's only one drummer That can do this And that's Yeah Yeah Yeah It's just Excellent And then Justin Chancellor Took over For bass Afterwards Guest cameo So Henry Rollins Did the spoken word On bottom That we talked about It's described As a psychological break Which I like A lot So But it's a cool track I really like that And I think I think it works Incredibly well Like you We talked about Before The It's like The soundscape Isn't it If it's kind of The atmosphere On them And it just Works really well Largely done in Drop D Yeah Which is the Best tuning Really dry Yeah Massively dynamic So not overly Compressed That's interesting Actually Because yeah I always look at The waveforms As we're Editing this Thing together Yeah And it's Interesting You mentioned That Because the Quiet bits You can hardly See Yeah Yeah But I think It's interesting Because if you Like I'm trying to Think of other Albums that were Released around This time Chaos AD Yeah Would be a good One Even Carcass I mean the Heartwork album Is quite compressed I think Yeah Yeah So if you Listen to a track From Heartwork And then Anything from Undertow Yeah Undertow record Sounds a bit Quiet and a bit Yes A bit thin Yeah But Turn the volume Up Yeah For the heart Turn the volume Up on Undertow And it's It comes to Life Yeah For me That's what We lost That's what The loudness Wars broke Yes That ability To have an Album just Like envelop You Because what Happens when You turn the When you turn The compression Up You can't Have an album On that loud It gets Just the whole Thing becomes You know Everything Just gets a bit Distorted And a bit A bit nasty Whereas if You've got A record That's produced Like this Yes You can turn The volume Up And you get The loudness And the quietness And I think That's bloody Brilliant Yeah The track That broke The band Was Sober Yeah So that was The first Single off This record Stop motion Video Again people Really revere That song Oh it's epic Don't they Sober Yeah stop motion Video which I Thought was really Really cool Yeah It was created By the guitarist Adam Jones He'd got like A graphical Background He did Tons of artwork And stuff Yeah so he's Behind the artwork The records And also the Videos isn't he He's the kind Of visual guy Exactly yeah Which I thought Was really Really cool And the second Single prison sex Got like a quarter Of the play Of Sober Because it got Like all kinds Of censoring Yeah yeah And in fact the Band got in a Whole bunch of Weird trouble With this right So the artwork So Adam Jones So Adam Jones So Adam Jones Created that Ribcage Cover That kind of Red It got censored Now If you go to Riffology.co Which is our Blog And you find the Blog for Undertow I've put in there The censored Artwork Yes And it's like A What they did Was they Removed the Red ribcage And it's like a Barcode Oh right Okay But on the Inner lining Notes Yeah There's a whole Bunch Let me see There's a whole Bunch of Stuff on there And it says Like it says Tall undertow On the Like the Spine And then it's I'm showing you The Yeah yeah Sort of like a Thing on there But So this is on The blog Yeah I'm just Scrolling up to The bit on the Blog But also you got This on the Inside Yeah yeah And it says It came to our Attention recently That many stores Across our fine And open minded Nation would Not stock Undertow Because of Our explicit Artwork Although we Loathe being Censored we Still want you To hear our Music so We took it Out however It's still Available to You at no Extra cost Fill out the Form Stick it in An envelope And we Will send You the Original Artwork Love Tool Wow So all of That stuff Is on the On the On our Blog on Riffology Dot co If you are That way Inclined So that's Really interesting To me That prison Sex Kindly you Can understand That The album Cover I cannot Understand why This was Censored That's a bit Weird So I don't know Which parts of America did That but I don't think We got that Over here In Europe The same Parts They did The perennial Advisory Sticker Which made All the Kids Want to Buy those Records Like having ribcages Was like Yeah you don't want a ribcage on your record do you Don't want that Yeah anyway a bit weird That Studio stuff Christians against ribcages They're against everything aren't they Yeah Someone asked me this week Are they just going off Christians against ribs Someone said to me this week What religion are you Yeah I don't know Yeah You must know I don't No I don't know I'm not anti religion No It's like I don't know I like loads of bits Of all of the different ones It's all good bits I can't even I've got my I've got my Williams Formula 1 top on Your religion is F1 I love Williams Formula 1 team Yeah yeah yeah If you ask me my favourite Formula 1 I couldn't tell you No I just I don't know They've all got good bits Yeah I don't I just don't know And bad bits And that's the way it is Just Is that an okay question to ask people What religion are you Like Like What's your favourite football team Yeah Yeah That seems alright Yeah yeah Or What's your favourite Or what's that singer The skinny One that does singing She's great tonight You know the one You know the one The skinny singer The skinny singer She does She does Country singing Oh yeah Is it country Beyonce No She does country sort of No the other one Britney No Christina Aguilera Bit like Britney More modern Oh more modern than Britney Yeah Oh god Not Celine Dion She's older Did you know She's married Married to an American footballist Oh Taylor Swift Taylor Swift Yes Like you could I think you could say What's your favourite Taylor Swift album Yeah I don't think you can ask What is your What's your favourite religion I don't know I don't know Anyway that was That was a question That I got asked this week Yeah The answer's Buddhism though I don't drink Yeah So this week's been hysterical Yeah So you go out They all drink And they're all on They're all on like Expenses and stuff So they're all By the time I get in They're all slaughtered Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah And then It's just like I got hugged a lot I hate I don't A I don't like being hugged Yeah And I've discovered I don't like being asked What religion I am There we go So I don't know Either of those things Actually I've said Buddhism Buddhism's strictly Probably not a religion What is it? More of a philosophy Oh Or a philosophical system Is it? Yeah Perhaps like lacrimology Lacrimology I would love it If he totally made that up Yeah Yeah I'm sure he did I'm sure he made it up Maynard He's trouble So anyway Disgustipated Back to the facts Yes Tour breakthrough So they were on the Lollapalooza tour 1993 On the second stage They got so big During that Yeah That they were Like they were There was a lot of talk Of bumping them To the main stage Oh really? Wow So this is kind of A proper breakthrough artist Yeah yeah yeah They're not well known Yeah yeah And the crowds Were so big for them That they were Really really close To bumping them But it's really quick Like 93 Yeah For me This record doesn't fit No Doesn't fit the tone Doesn't fit the The world Like if you were But they weren't big Over here were they? No No one really heard Of them over here You were an A&R guy Right You were working At a record label You want to I mean You want to sign You want to sign Nirvana You know what I mean You're looking for Like You want hits Pearl Jam You're looking for Soundgarden You're looking for These kind of That's where the world's Heading Right This kind of You're not looking For like Like weird Six Eight Spoken word By Henry Rollins Yeah Yeah Yeah But people were People wanted it Yeah There was this heavy music This kind of This kind of gap That was You know Coming through Like if you look at where Like Slayer were And like where the Kind of big Like Metallica were Yeah You know They were like Metallica were in Load reload land It was shocking Yes You know It's not this No No So I just think It's phenomenal They even got Signed Do you know What I mean It's like this It feels like It's so not On In fashion Yeah This wasn't like Super fashionable music At all Almost kind of Made it Fashionable They kind of Carved out Their own space I think Which I think Is really Really cool But yeah Interestingly Their success They're almost like Linear Right Everything they did Just got bigger And better And bigger And more fans And it was like They just couldn't Seem to put a Put a foot wrong And it's interesting That you joked About the idea of Religion Or a cult Because That's what That's what tall Fans kind of Are To a certain extent There's that lovely Meme Where There's that lovely Meme Where that guy Carries a Oh What's he carrying Around He's carrying Like a Essentially The meme Is like This guy Gets stopped In the video And asked him And he starts Talking about Like Number progressions And stuff Can I talk to you About how great Tall are please And there is a bit Of that about Tall friends Like you say There's not Do you know What I mean The music Is actually It's quite immediate And easy To listen to Yeah But you scratch Beneath the surface And the weird Time signatures Are there And then the Lyrics are Like interesting And weird And he talks About odd stuff And you know There's always Bits in there Where you know There's always Like a story Behind the songs And everything Which you don't Know whether It's true or not Whether it's a Concert Made it up But yeah But there is And they're like So I think I don't know I think it's Fascinating But tall fans Are like that They tend They know All this stuff Yeah They're into The cult of it Yeah The lore Cold's the wrong word But the lore Of the band Yeah Yeah Absolutely Like Sleep Token Are a bit like that Yeah I think There's that kind Of thing too And yeah An album was released On the same year As this Like 93 was a big year But you had like You know Siamese Dream And In Utero And Chaos AD Yeah Some really really Big good heart work Came out that year As well So it was like A big year Yeah And you know If you If you were asking me At the beginning of 93 Would like a Like a semi-proggy Yeah Not widly-widly Uber-Guitary But like Like a weird Atmospheric-y Proggy record Do well No I wouldn't I don't think It would have done I mean this is like Not Korn era Like weird stuff This is Yeah Yeah Yeah 93 It's really early Yeah But yeah They just seem to They seem to I think they kind of Carved like When we talked about Black Sabbath Creating that space Yes And doing They're just like That was just who they are That was the music they made Yeah And this kind of bubble Built around them And then all these other bands Yeah Yeah You know like Connected to that And we're like Oh that's really cool We you know Yeah let's do some of that And it like splintered off Into all these different Sub-genres and stuff like that Yeah I kind of feel There's a little bit of that Going on here Where this record Or not necessarily this record Maybe Opiate as well And then this one Kind of solidified it A little bit Yeah And then you've got A bunch of other bands That are kind of like Oh actually Yeah yeah yeah I like that I like that dark tone I like the fact Yeah yeah yeah And then all this other stuff Kind of flows off the back of this Yes But yeah They definitely had This kind of thing around them And then they were not It wasn't copied It didn't feel like it No This felt like their scene Yeah yeah yeah yeah Yeah So anyway That's it for facts Facts facts facts facts Facts So we're going to have Prison sex now And then we're going to And then we're going to Discuss next week's album Oh I've changed my mind I'm so excited about Next week's album I've got I can't We'll talk about it after this Have you had to tell me No Kind of Play the thing And we'll come back in a minute It took so long to remember It took so long to remember Just what happened I was so young and fast to live Didn't know what I remember But I'm breathing so hard and guess I'm still alive Even the signs seem to tell me Always got my hands down and my hands down and my eyes closed and my toes right on my mind I do I do unto others What has been done to me I do unto others What has been done to you I'm treading water I need to sleep a while My land and mother You look so precious for what you Won't you come on Up close to the Else we know still I can swear on you I need you to feel this I can't stand to burn too long Release his son of me Oh, what a sweet moment I'm home. Too good to me now, what has been done to me? Too good to me now, what has been done? Your breathing's up, I guess you'll be still alive. Even the suns seem to tell me how it was, won't you? Won't you come on up closer? Oh, so not yours, I can smell you. I need you to feel this. I need this to make me cool. Release inside of me. Have you a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? Have you a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? Holy, this one, holy, medium with no peace of mind. That your hands are bound and your hands are down. And your eyes fall. It looks precious now. You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? I have found some kind of temporary sanity in this Sheer blood and come on my hands I'll come round once I go You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of? That's a sense of humor. But honestly, if you met those guys, if you met Maynard, he was a hoot. He was doing stand-up comedy at clubs in LA at the time that we were recording that record. And the lyrics of the Tool records are very surprising if you actually know what they mean. And then the artwork on the albums too. there's a lot of hidden meanings. And on the spine of the CD, you'll see little pictures of like, "Whoa, what's that?" You know, a lot of mysterious imagery that they packed into those records. Very good. Very good. Are we done? Yeah. I like editing. I like frogs. You would take good editing. I have to say you would take good editing. I like it. I like doing it. You would take good at it. You know, when you see people that like really love what they're doing. Yeah. And they kind of like zone into it. Yeah, yeah. There's... If you... It must be one of the most privileged things in the world to find that thing. Yeah. You know? Because there are people... They're normal people probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Never know what that feels like. Never know what it's like to be... Like for me, it's always been code or maths or like, you know, nerdy stuff like that. Like your day can disappear. You... Yeah. Like some mornings I get to my desk and I get my cup of tea and I start and I'll get so deep into a thing. Yeah. You kind of... The next thing I know, like the kids are back and it's four o'clock. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My tea's like half drunk and it's cold. Yeah. And you've just been like... You've just got locked into something. Yeah. Yeah. The rabbit hole and your legs are stiff and it's all a bit weird when you stand up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But it's just this... I don't know. It's just this incredible state to get into. Yeah, yeah. And you get that when you're editing. I do. I absolutely love it. I love it. I love it. Yeah, you're in there and there's nothing else. Yeah. this chronology, this story out of these blocks of chaos. Yeah. I love it. I like doing a video as well. I don't really like filming. I'm not into that. Yeah. Or I do like recording music. Yeah. But I really like taking the blocks of there could be chaos. Yeah. Like the interviews. Yeah. I like the puzzle of like knowing where they fit and how they fit in the story. And I like it. What's really fun for me is obviously I'm here when we make it. Yeah. And then when I go home and listen to it. Yeah. It sounds nothing like. Well, not nothing like that. Yeah. But it's it grows into this thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like we're just having the chat when we're here. Yeah. It's just us waffling. Yeah. And then you stitch it over into this thing that's like entertaining. I like it. You're still good. That's the bit I like. Yeah. And if you've gotten this far, so do you. Thank you very much for joining us. It's it's incredibly, you know, we're incredibly privileged to have you with us. So thank you very much. There's more of you joining us as well, which is crazy. Like each week. It is weekly, isn't it? Every week. We're looking at the numbers going. Yeah. It's weekly. We do it weekly. Yeah. It is. It's it's lovely. The show's getting busier and more if you were listening. And yeah, for that. I mean, it's great. Yeah, really great. So thank you. Thank you very much for joining us. And obviously, I think people are sharing is with their friends and have a good time. We were contemplating doing some merch and doing some t-shirts and things. But we were about a year into us contemplating that. I've got the idea in my head, but I don't know quite how to do it. What merch would you like? Yeah. Tell us. Tell us what merch you'd like. Just like Riffology, jock straps, whatever else. Beanies. I like a beanie. Yeah. I don't really wear a bit. I wear baseball caps. Do you know what people will want? What they want. They'll want long, thin, hot water bottles. That's what they want. And it'll say Riffology all the way down and you can snuggle up to a Riffology hot water bottle. No, you're going to have to do that. You'll have to get a photo of it and superimpose Riffology onto it. I bet someone in China can make it for us. They can make anything, won't they? Yeah. Imagine describing what I want. Yeah. Like a long, thin, hot water bottle. Yeah. No, it's not a penis. It's... What should we do next? Right. Well, it's interesting because you were like in different parts of the world where you and I were today. Simultaneously. Simultaneously. Chose the next band. But then... Yeah. Both changed our mind while we were here. Which is strange. Did we change our mind? Yeah. Because we said hole. Yeah, we did. We said hole. Because I was at Brew today. I played a gig. Yeah. And Celebrity Skin came on. I was like, we've got to do hole. Why have we not done the hole yet? That riff. That... It's wicked. Probably one of the best riffs. Yeah. And then you started playing a song. Yeah. And you went, we should probably look at this next. And I went, no way. No way is this happening. Like where... Where there's that serendipitous kind of... I want to do... There's a whole bunch of albums that I want to do and I've just been... You know, I had a lot of time. Like to get from where we live to Scotland on the train and back. It takes about 10 days. Yeah. It's forever. It's really boring on the train. And the internet doesn't work very well. So I listened to a lot of stuff that I'd got on my phone. And there were a few albums that really... Or a few tracks of albums that really stood out to me. And I just thought we've got to cover them. One is Live Through This. Yeah. I'm whole... Yeah. Got to do that. I think Bricks Are Heavy by L7. Yeah. Got to do that. I also really want to do... Do Little by the Pixies. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why. There's just something about those three... Yeah. They're the ones who died into it. ...that's leapt out to me this week. And I just thought, do you know what? I think we should... Because then when we were just talking just then before we hit record again, you were saying that. And then I went, well, let's go chronological. Let's do the Pixies first. Yeah. And now you're saying that. I'm going, we don't have to stick to the chronological rules. We do what we want. Because it's our podcast, we kind of make... We basically make all our own rules and then break them anyway. So... So, Do Little was 1989. Yeah. Live Through This was 1994. Yeah. And then Bricks Are Heavy was 1992. Yeah. So, I don't know. Well, I'll tell you what we should do then. I know exactly what we should do. Yeah. We should go to the latest one because we were both on hold today. We both... Because that's a thing. That's like a message from God basically saying you've got to do hold. Well, it is. And then... Hang on. And then... And then you go back in time one. And then you go back in time one again. We could do that. Yeah. Or... So, let's roll back a little bit. Yeah. So, for me, I listened to... On my playlist, I had Violet and Miss World. Yeah. From Live Through This, right? From Hole. And then you said, actually, I heard Celebrity Skin this week. Yeah. And that's dead good as well. Yeah. That's got like... It's got Celebrity Skin on there. It's got Reasons To Be Beautiful. It's got Malibu. It's got like... Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's good. Boys On Radio. It is. But that's a poppy one. And I quite like the Raw one, which is what that first one was. They... It is a proper punky record. Yeah. That was... That was released days after Kurt killed himself as well. Yeah, yeah. So, there's like... There's really... I think there's a lot to... Yeah. There's a lot to unpack. Yeah. I think there... With a lot of the lyrics, a lot of the... Yeah. I guess the way the press dealt with that as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, there was a lot... They were kind of ripped apart a little bit in the press with kind of a... Are you sure this is a good... You know what I mean? They're putting this out now kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you been waiting for this kind of thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, let's do it. Let's do Live Through This by whole 1994. Bosh. I like it. Yeah. Do you know... Was she one of the first people that was called a riot girl? I don't know. Do you know that whole class of girls that were like the kind of... Yeah, there was, wasn't there? You know, the whole punky... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I liked that. Yeah. I don't know about you. She probably was. Yeah. That kind of... You know, that whole kind of... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Screw you. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because girls weren't like that in the 90s. You know what I mean? No, no, no. There was like lad culture a little bit, I suppose, but not like early in the 90s. No. And yeah, Courtney Love was properly like up yours. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? I'm a punk rocker. I don't... Yeah, yeah. Okay, I've just got like... Because I'm a girl. Yeah. Do you know? She was dead good. Yeah. Loud. Yeah. Yeah. thank you for listening alright bye bye see ya sorry