Show Notes
When the vocalist change actually worked
John Bush replaces Joey Belladonna, Elektra replaces Island Records, Dave Jerden replaces Mark Dodson, and somehow Sound of White Noise becomes Anthrax's highest-charting album (Billboard #7, certified gold in 1993). The first album without Joey's operatic thrash-metal wail could have been a disaster, but Bush's growly Alice in Chains-meets-Armored Saint delivery slots perfectly into darker, mid-tempo grooves that feel more Jane's Addiction than Bay Area speed worship. Recorded at A&M and Conway Studios in Hollywood, mixed with walls of compressed guitars and dry, punchy drums, this is Anthrax chasing the '90s hard rock sound without losing their edge. Chris discovers the album cold while Neil champions it as proof that radical reinvention can stick when the songwriting nucleus (Scott Ian, Charlie Benante) stays intact.
The discussion ranges from producer Dave Jerden's CV (Red Hot Chili Peppers, Jane's Addiction, Alice in Chains, Spinal Tap's Break Like the Wind) to the eternal question of when vocalist changes kill a band versus when they unlock new audiences. Dan Spitz's surprise post-Anthrax career as a master Swiss watchmaker provides the episode's wildest tangent, while debates about whether AC/DC, Skid Row, or Linkin Park prove any coherent rules about lineup changes spiral delightfully nowhere. The production gets dissected (multi-mic vocal techniques, layered guitar compression, that gorgeous drum sound on "Only"), and the hosts agree this still sounds like Anthrax despite sounding nothing like Persistence of Time.
What You'll Hear
- The triple change: John Bush brings lyric-writing creativity Joey never contributed, Elektra connects them to Dave Jerden's grunge-adjacent production style, and the world around Anthrax shifts from thrash to hard rock (Metallica's Black Album, Megadeth slowing down, Slayer mid-tempo)
- Dave Jerden's sonic fingerprints: Multi-mic vocal setups, compressed guitar walls, dry drum ambience that sounds definitively '90s without going full Alice in Chains dark
- Singles dissected: "Only" (the kick drum intro, Billboard success, ranked among Anthrax's most important singles), "Black Lodge" (Angelo Badalamenti co-write, Twin Peaks influence, proggy darkness bizarre for Anthrax)
- The vocalist change debate: Why AC/DC (Bon Scott to Brian Johnson) worked, why Skid Row (Sebastian Bach departure) didn't, why Linkin Park (Chester to Emily Armstrong) feels right, and whether there are any actual rules
- Dan Spitz watchmaking revelation: Left Anthrax post-Sound of White Noise, earned two degrees, studied at Switzerland's elite watchmaker school (10 students chosen from thousands annually), became world-renowned horologist that other watchmakers call when stuck
- Scott Ian's undying enthusiasm: The puppy-dog passion keeping Anthrax fresh decades later, Instagram shorts with his son playing Metallica/Slayer covers, showing up on every tribute/aid project with his V-shaped guitar
Featured Tracks
"Only" dominates discussion with its punchy kick drum intro, dry drum sound showcasing Dave Jerden's production chops, and status as Anthrax's highest-performing single from this era. "Black Lodge" gets spotlight for its Angelo Badalamenti co-write, Twin Peaks darkness, and proggy menace that would fit Opeth better than expected Anthrax. The Cardiff setlist from November 9, 1993 reveals the band played almost the entire Sound of White Noise album on tour, unusual commitment suggesting confidence in the reinvention. Production notes celebrate the compressed guitar slabs, multi-layered vocal mic techniques allowing booth movement, and those gorgeous dry drums that sound definitively 1993 without derivative copying.
Tangential Gold
- Dan Spitz's watchmaking mastery: Post-Anthrax career pivot to Swiss horology school (elite 10-student annual intake), became master watchmaker working on $100k+ pieces, now runs his own company, defined as the watchmaker other watchmakers call when stuck, absolute career reinvention legend
- "It's-a-me Mario" linguistic debate: Chris thought Nintendo's plumber said "It's-a-me Mario" (Italian accent stereotype), actually says "Itsumi Mario" (Japanese for "super"), meme status uncertain but canonized now
- Spinal Tap excitement: New film approaching, Dave Jerden produced Break Like the Wind, "turn it up to 11" improvised scene worship, amp capo reunion tour bit, effortless comedy that feels unscripted
- CD wallet archaeology: Chris's 200+ CD collection smelling of nostalgia and questionable preservation, first "random album" selection process teased (eventually landing on Deftones White Pony for next episode)
- Wristwatch Revival YouTube obsession: Sleep-aid recommendation for watch enthusiasts, calming disassembly/cleaning/reassembly process with story arc tension (will he remember where that tiny spring goes?), Neil's Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy audio ritual comparison
Why This Matters
This is the album that proves Anthrax could evolve beyond Joey Belladonna's signature voice without collapsing into tribute-band territory. John Bush's creative contributions (lyric co-writing, darker vocal tone) combined with Dave Jerden's '90s production aesthetic created their highest-charting record and opened new audiences while retaining the Scott Ian/Charlie Benante songwriting core. It's also Dan Spitz's swan song before his extraordinary watchmaking pivot, captured mid-transition between thrash's commercial peak and grunge's dominance. The episode wrestles honestly with when lineup changes work (creative nucleus intact, new voice adding genuine dimension) versus when they kill identity (singular voice departure leaving hollow shell), using Anthrax's successful risk as the measuring stick. The tangents celebrating Scott Ian's puppy enthusiasm and Dan Spitz's second-act mastery remind us musicians can be multi-dimensional humans, not just nostalgia vessels.
Perfect for
John Bush loyalists; Dave Jerden production nerds; fans wondering why some vocalist changes work while others fail spectacularly; '90s hard rock enthusiasts who remember when Anthrax, Metallica, and Megadeth all slowed down simultaneously; Dan Spitz watchmaking admirers; people who realize "Only" is actually brilliant; Spinal Tap devotees awaiting the new film; Twin Peaks crossover enthusiasts curious about Angelo Badalamenti metal collaborations; anyone who's ever punched inanimate objects (VCRs) in teenage fury then questioned the logic later; Wristwatch Revival YouTube subscribers; Deftones fans excited about next week's White Pony discussion; and collectors with 200-CD wallets that smell vaguely of 1997.
Transcript
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This is a journey into sound. This is a journey into sound. This is a journey into sound. This is a journey into sound. This is a journey into sound. This is a journey into sound. This is a journey into sound. This is a journey into sound. This is a journey into sound. This is a journey into sound. This is a journey into sound. This is a journey into sound. This is a journey into sound. This is a journey into sound. Boy, boys are rubbish when they fall out, aren't they? This is a journey into sound. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was dead. So it's like a supergroup. So it's like a supergroup. It's like a John Bush band thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was just dead good. It was like... So that's not Armoured Saint. No, no, it was like a totally, totally new band. I think they've only done one album called Category 7. If you've not heard it, go and listen to that. So the band was called Category 7? Yeah. If you like that kind of exodus-y, slayer-y, anthrax-y stuff, you'll love it. It's dead good. Machine Head style. I think it's a really cool album. Yeah. But yeah, John Bush was dead good. Yeah, yeah. But then I remember this album came out. And a writer. That crucial end. I mean, at the time, I don't think I realised that he was a writer. Because as we spoke last week, the writing nucleus of the band is the drummer, isn't it? And the rhythm guitarist. Scott Ian, Scott Ian, they do the writing. They're like the crooks, aren't they, of the writing? Yeah. They would do the kind of the four-track. I'm saying four-track like it's 1985. They would do the demos and stuff. And then the rest of the band would pull together. But this guy's a new creative force. We would constantly like bang stuff off each other where he would start lyrics to something and then give them to me or I would start lyrics and then give them to John. And it just worked out great because the stuff he would come up with, I know I wouldn't have come up with. I think there's a whole bunch of influences that change here. Which is like you could really underestimate the change of this by going, well, oh, it's just the vocalist change. So we've lost Joey and we've got John Bush, who writes differently, has a different, a much more growly voice, I think. Like Joey's voice is quite high. It's rangy. It's kind of, yeah, it's got that kind of power metal sort of thing, hasn't it? But then John Bush is like listening to Alice in Chains or something or James Addiction. It's a more grungy sound. Yeah, it's darker and grungy. It's weird for a band like Anthrax, who's been around in the 80s, and to make a change into a new decade. I think it's difficult for most bands to do that. And Anthrax has done it with very much a smooth transition. And obviously I feel like I'm part of that transition. But then you also had a change in record label. So they switched from Ireland to Electra. And then Electra connected them to Dave Jordan. Yeah. Now, Dave Jordan is, I mean, he's done, looking through the stuff that he has done back here. I mean, he was, he was doing like Red Hot Chili Peppers. Yeah. So he did, 1984, he was the engineer for that. It's in Social Distortion, Jane's Addiction, Alice in Chains, Fishbone. Yeah. In 91, he did Armoured Saints. Okay. So they already had that relationship. Symbol of Salvation. Yeah. Dude, I didn't know. I'm just reading down the list. There's a bunch of stuff I didn't know about this, actually. He did Break Like the Wind, Spinal Tap. Are you excited about the film? I'm so excited. It's not far off, is it? No, it's not. And I keep seeing things on the internet. I keep seeing bits on Facebook. I so want to go and go and talk. And they're all good. They're all, they've, you know, they've got their thing, haven't they? They know exactly what they're doing. Do you know what it is about the Spinal Tap? Just, it feels effortless when you watch, do you know what I mean? It's like, I don't know. I always wonder with things like that. Is it how much of that is improvised? Tons of it was improvised in the first one, wasn't it? The famous, they turn up to 11, is improvised. Yes, that's improvised. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's Christopher Guest, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. He's kind of the, because he did that Best in Show as well, didn't he? There's a few films that he was a part of. Oh, it's great, but it's all that same humour. Is it? Yeah, that Best in Show was like dog shows. There's just something about it where it's like, it's the delivery, the timing of it. And I just. The best one for me was The Amp Capo. Yeah. In the second kind of documentary they did. It was like a reunion tour, wasn't it? That was it, yeah, yeah. Yeah, The Amp Capo, where you just moved it up the amp. Yeah. Oh, my God. That was my favourite. It's just, I mean, it's clearly written, but it feels just so good. And the rock and roll getting to the stage. Honestly, almost every gig, me and Dan quote that, because we get lost somewhere. Yeah. We definitely always get lost. I forgot where I was. Sorry. We're talking about. Dave Jordan. Yeah. So he. I'm just, I was just looking at my, my, my tablet. It's a good name. Dave Jordan is. Dave Jordan. I think you thought I was going to be a producer. Dave Jordan. It sounds like a wrestler. Dave Jordan. Anyway, as I was going through. So he did Sacred Rike as well. He did Sound of White Noise by Anthrax. It's a good album name, right? He then did a bunch of stuff. He did like, um, uh, Biohazard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The Offspring. He did Ixnay on the Hombra. I forgot about Biohazard. Um, Americana by The Offspring as well. Oh, did he do that? Yeah. Did all kinds. He's just. What did he do? Which albums did he do? Ixnay. Ixnay and Americana. Yeah. They're both great sounding albums. They are. Looking down his list, you know, I'm looking down this list, looking for something that I might, that I would like. I don't think I would like that. You'd have to go back to like, I don't know. He did Dirty Work by the Rolling Stones. I quite like that. Yeah. Nothing Shocking by Jane's Addiction in 88. Um, he did Talking Heads Remain in Light in 1980. So it's eclectic as well. Yeah. So it's not just the gross thing. Frank Zappa, the man from Utopia in the early 80s. By the time he did this album, he'd been producing for 30, didn't he? He'd been producing for 13 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's quite a bit of like new wavy, a bit new wavy there as well, isn't there? A lot of it. So he was engineering and mixing up to, like started really in 1980, engineered and mixed up to, I would say like 86. Yeah. And then started to produce. So, um, but one of the first ones he produced actually was Nothing Shocking by Jane's Addiction. Got to do Jane's Addiction. Yeah, we have. We've definitely got to do Jane's Addiction. I do like Jane's Addiction a lot. They get, they get, they get kind of like, not forgotten about, but they're not spoken about as much as they're such an influential band, really. It's like, Black Crows are a bit like that to me. Yeah, yeah. It's easy to forget how good they are. Anyway, so he was dead good. So we've got vocalist change. Yeah. We've got a label change. Yeah. And we've got Dave Jordan. Yeah. And then engineering changes as well. Yeah, yeah. And then the world around Anthrax has changed, you know? Yeah, yeah. So, so there was a definite step away from that kind of thrash, really. Yeah. Well, really conscious. There's not much thrashy on this at all. No, it's kind of, it's very hard rocky. Yeah. Even proggy bits. Yeah. Anthrax. But again, like Megadeth and Metallica, they were hard rock at this point. All of them. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. Everyone had made the transition. Metallica was smashing out Load and Reload and all that. And were the fans going with them? Yeah. Really? They were just like, yeah. You were either going down this path or like extreme music was probably still, still going. And you had Death and things like that that were still kind of going through. But it's interesting, if you were a Metallica fan, you know, they, what, mid-80s? This is like mid-90s, so it's another 10 years. So if you picked up these when you were 15, you're now in your late 20s. Yeah. And so, I don't know. You kind of go with, I'm thinking about Green Day. Yeah. And I'm thinking about, because obviously I got into music a little bit later than this. Guitar music, you know, in a big way. And I was an early adopter of Green Day and I got into them really early. Yeah. But loved them all the way through. Yeah. And as they evolved. You evolved with them. I love their stuff with them. Up until more recently, where I'm not really switched on to it very much. But the, maybe it's the same as that. Maybe it's. Maybe. But then Green Day haven't changed stylistically much. They've written like some, they've written loads more pop songs. They've got really good songs and writing and that. Yeah, that's true. But in terms of like the essence of the music, it's still punk. It's still a bit rock and roll. Yeah. Full chord. Whereas this, I think where I'm going with it is the Anthrax is such a different sound. It is. It's almost like the difference between something like Rage Against the Machine and Audio Slayer. Anthrax is a heavy metal band. Granted, we've done a lot of things that have probably really pushed the boundaries of what was known as heavy metal. Whether it was something we did in rap or something we did with this or with that, it's always sounded like Anthrax and that's the one thing I love about this band is I feel we could do anything. It tests all different kinds of genres and this and that, but you know, putting all these different things into our music and it's always going to sound like us. It hasn't not sounded like us yet. So I never feel limited or stifled or anything. Actually, I think they found like a new audience. Yeah. I mean, like Metallica did as well to a degree. Like when I discovered Metallica with like Kill Em All and then we had a like Master and then, you know, then they started to go like a little bit, I think kind of quite proggy Metallica did. So you kind of heard it and Justice. Yeah. And then you had the Black Album. Yeah. And then it went. Which one had one on it? It was on Justice. That was the turning point, wasn't it? That was bizarre. That was a bizarre sounding. That was like Uber. And we covered that, but that's like Uber dry. Yeah. Super weird sounding. It was quite a cool sounding record, but Uber weird. No, nothing sounded like that. You could play somebody three seconds of that and they would know which album, even if they were a Metallica fan, they probably know which album that was wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the bit that's interesting for me with Metallica is by the time you're into Load and Reload, they're hard rock songs. There's nothing thrashy about it. There's nothing thrashy on the Black Album. There's nothing really thrashy on Unjustice, to be honest. It's really, it's getting quite technical. Yes, yeah. I mean, even Blacken's not like super fast, really. So, but it's interesting. I think they then collected a ton of new fans for the Black Album. Yeah. Like with Enter Sandman and stuff. And I think the same is true of Anthrax here. Yeah. Only was the big single. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kick drum beginning. And it kind of really, but the productions, the drums are dry sounding. Lovely, beautiful drum sound on this record. Really, really good. The guitars, I think, you know, I think Spinal Tap-esque. The compressors are up at 11. Yeah. There's a solid wall of guitars, whereas you compare that to, like you said, it sounds like a different band. Yeah. If you compare that to, you know, if you compare that to where they were on the previous record, it was kind of scooped as mids as scooped a little bit. And, you know, the guitars have got a little bit of texture to some degree on A Persistence of Time. Yeah. There's a very different guitar tone. Yeah, absolutely. 100%. Whereas this is kind of, it's, yeah, slabby, thick, it's heavy. I like it. I like this sound. I think that's the, yeah. I've got a very, very distinct guitar sound. This sounds 90s to me, and it's interesting. I think Persistence of Time still got that 80s tinge to it, whereas this is like full-on, you know, I guess it's chasing the success. I think this is all chasing the success of Metallica's Black Album. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then also, it's like, you know, what Alice in Chains were doing, and, you know, it's chasing that stuff, I think, whether it was calculated. Yes, yeah, yeah. Or whether it was just, and we've talked about this before, where, you know, whether you've just been influenced by what's going on around you, you know, you're in a studio, you've got a new vocalist, you've got a new record label with the, you know, expectations that that brings, and then you've got, you know, a bunch of new people around you, and engineers and mixers and all those people. I don't know whether you, I mean, are you just going to be influenced by what you've heard? Yeah. Or is it a case of, well, Alice in Chains are dead successful, and Metallica were dead successful. Yeah. We're just going to, you know what I mean? We're just going to, you know what I mean. We're just going to be, you know, we're just going to be, you know, we're just going to be, you know, we're just going to be, we're just going to be, you know, we're just going to be, you know, we're just going to be, you know, we're just going to be, you know, we're just going to be, you know, we're just going to be, you know, we're just going to be, you know, we're just going to be here. We're just going to be, you know, we're just going to be, you know, we're just going to be, you know. We're just going to be, you know, we're just going to be, you know. We're just going to be, you know. I don't think a human being could live that long. Yeah, I never gave a damn. I was never even a fan. The only thing that makes me smile is your pain. I don't even care. When did you see it? Anyone fair? Say I'm not enjoying this one. I don't think I'm not enjoying this one. I don't think I'm not enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. 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I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. I don't think I'm enjoying this one. Should it be a new back? Should it have had a new band name? Should it have been a different? Yes, we've talked about that before. It is so different, isn't it? I think it's a big difference from things that we've done in the past, especially having John in the band. He kind of injected. I mean, we have a singer in the band now who's writing lyrics and who's a big part of the creative process. I think I'm a pretty soulful singer. And I think I have an aggressive sounding voice. And I think you combine that with the aggressive anthrax music. It just, to me, it just makes it even that much more powerful. We have a singer now in the band who was writing and a part of creating the songs because with Joey in the band, he never, he didn't write anything. He wasn't a part of any of the creativity of this band really. And it was just becoming more and more of a frustration because we really wanted to have a singer who would be able to walk in a studio and be singing something that he had a hand in. The first time as a band, we kind of put ourselves in the hands of someone else who had this vision from the start of what he wanted things and how he wanted things to go. The idea behind that song is based in religion and morality issue of abortion. And instead of just coming out and kind of slapping you in the face with an opinion, we just went about it in a way where we created a situation. There are some people when they leave a band that you think, you know, that's it. Like when Ozzy left Black Sabbath, that for me was still Black Sabbath. And even when like Dio did like such an awesome job. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it didn't, that's not my Black Sabbath with Dio. No. I mean, completely love what he did. Should they have called it something else? Yeah. And it's, there's, I think there's so many cases of that where you just think actually, I mean, Sepultura is a brilliant example. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where, when the kind of core members, all that was left really was Andreas Kisser and Sepultura and they carried on with the name and they sounded for me not Sepultura anymore. No, no, it was a different beast. Yeah. You know, and you've got to think like if, if James Hetfield left Metallica. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they got somebody else. Yeah. Would that still be Metallica? Yeah. I'd argue probably not. But then Linkin Park, when Chester died, they came back with Emily. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bizarre. That's still Linkin Park to me. Yeah, great. Still sounds like Linkin Park. Still feels like Linkin Park. Still got the same ethos there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. Someone of a, actually totally different gender. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's, oh, mate, I, I, I do not know how you would, you know, what are the rules? Where's the line? Where are the rules? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's gotta be a rule for this somewhere, but I don't know what the rules are. Like, sometimes it makes sense. Yeah. And you think, yeah, that's totally fine. AC/DC. Mm. Right. Vocalist change. Yeah. Then they do the Black Album with Brian. Yeah, yeah. Smash it. Absolutely brilliant. Still AC/DC. Yeah, yeah. Vocalists change. That's interesting, isn't it? Yeah. And it just doesn't work. It's not the same. I wonder, I wonder if it's the creative nucleus. It could be like, Skid Row's a good one for this, right? Yeah. So Skid Row, when Sebastian Bach left, Sebastian Bach wasn't a key part of the songwriting. No. Although, not, I mean, you never really know the truth with, with Skid Row. But they, they, they claim that the, that was all Rachel Bolan. Mm. And, you know, the writing was all happening there. And then, uh, Seb would just turn up and belt the. Yeah. Belt the song. Yeah. And then, and then go home kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. And anyone could kind of come in and do the same job. And when he left, Skid Row stopped. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Skid Row stopped being Skid Row at that point. Yeah. And I think possibly because his voice, his stylistic voice was so unique. Right. That's what you, that's what you get. Yeah. But he wasn't a big part of that. The creative bit, right. Same thing with Anthrax. Like Jerry Belladonna's voice is, is rangy and dynamic and unique. And not, no one really sounds like Jerry Belladonna, but I don't know. Like this album still sounds like Anthrax to me. Yeah. I know it sounds different. It sounds radically different, but it still sounds like Anthrax. And I don't know what I, and I cannot tell you why this still sounds like Anthrax, but Skid Row's albums after Sebastian Bach don't sound like Skid Row. No. It sounds like really hypocritical and kind of like, you're just making it up as you go along and probably are. Yeah. But it's weird, isn't it? Yeah, it is weird. Like some bands just seem, yeah. Like one person will leave and that seems to like, that's it. Yeah. It's just kind of game over. Yeah. Yeah. Like imagine, I don't know, like Megadeth without Dave Mustaine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The Pumpkins without Billy. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And he's gone and done a few other things and called it something else. Yeah. But it still sounds like the Pumpkins to me. Yeah. That's the thing. Because his voice is so, it's just, no one sings like that. No one's got that voice. Yeah. I mean, it's bizarre, isn't it? Like I'm thinking like, like Napalm Death went through vocalist changes when Barney took over. That changed their sound. But their sound was kind of changing anyway. And it still sounded like Napalm Death to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The vocalist change. And there are bands that haven't had change. Like I'm thinking of Prong. Yeah. Like Tommy Victor's been part of, you know, he probably is his band essentially. But they've not, they've stylistically been the same. All the way through. All the way through. There's very little deviation. You could put any song on any album and they'd still sit together, wouldn't they? Pretty much. Yeah, they've, yeah. I mean, the production gets better, you know, and all of that stuff. And the songs, I think, get better. But yeah, there's not a big stylistic change in any of the Prong records. But yeah, it's super weird. Interestingly, this change from Anthrax didn't last that long. They did this change. John Bush, I think, did two records, three records. And then Joey Belladonna comes back in like 2011 or whatever it was. But I find it, they didn't immediately go back to persistence of time, Anthrax. No. They kind of stuck with this kind of heavier, darker sound. background. And then they've kind of gone back a little bit lately in the- I'm actually thinking it's amazing that they're, they're still, they're still a creative force that aren't necessarily dining out on their back catalog. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is an interesting thing. Like when they're doing the new, you know, they did a couple of new tours. Yeah. You know when they saw my download, didn't we, a few years ago. And it all sounded fresh. It didn't, it didn't, it didn't sound- You know when you have a band and they've been going for, you know, hundreds of years and you watch them and it's like, oh, they're just playing the great, like, I made the great example. Yeah, yeah. You're watching that. They're putting on a show. It's very, very theatrical. It's very well rehearsed. Kiss, same, the same. It was that same year, wasn't it? Um, oh no, it was a year after. But there, but it was that, that thing. But you know, you're watching almost like a legacy arena band. Yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah, no, you're right. Whereas when you watch Anthrax, it's still a bit rock and roll. It's still a bit like- Yeah. They've got something to prove. They've got something to do, you know. I think they, yeah. Yeah. I think they absolutely love it. Mm. And do you know the other thing I love about Anthrax? Um, and if you're not on, I think it's on Instagram. I get confused when I do social media, but it's one of the like shorts. Yes. Things like the YouTube shorts or Instagram shorts or whatever. Um, Scott Ian and his son play other bands songs. Yes. So they'll do like Metallica and Slayer tracks and his son plays and plays the drums. And I don't know. But there's just like, you know, when you see somebody, you can quite clearly see he adores this stuff. He's just having a good time in his life. Scott is just having the best time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, this isn't, he's not, um, I think what you saw with Slayer, Tom Aurea particularly, this was a job to him. Yeah. This was a nine to five job. He turned up contractually, got told where to go, did his stuff and then finished. Right. I don't think he was in love with what he was doing. Whereas I think Scott, I mean, any opportunity and Scott Ian is there playing on it. Like there's any kind of like, you know, aid project for somewhere as an album to play on. There's a, you know, a tribute to somebody that's Scott Ian's there. Yeah. Yeah. With his stupid V shaped guitar riffing away, banging his head. Do you know what I mean? He's just having the time of his life. He's like a puppy. But you see that enthusiasm from him still. And I think if you're in a band with somebody like that, if you're on any kind of project with somebody like that, who's got that much enthusiasm, it's going to pull you through, isn't it? It's going to carry you on a little bit. For me, I think, like Charlie Benante is the brains and the commercial behind. He's got the commercial announce behind. He's the guy that understands how the business works, where the money comes from, how they, you know, continue to make the anthrax business tick. Yeah. And I think that that kind of undying passion for metal is Scott Ian. Not that the rest of the band don't have it, but I think he's like wound up to 11 all day, every day, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And it was lovely. It was brilliant to see him at the Back to the Beginning tour. Yes. Scott was in like Anthrax. He was in like all the other bands. You know what I mean? He was like every time a guitarist like Scott would come out, you know? And you could just see he's like, he's like that. I don't know. The face is just beaming. You know, there's this grin on his face. Just like, I don't know, like a kid in a sweet shop. Yeah. But yeah, I don't know when they'll stop because Megadeth have said they're stopping. They're no more now. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know whether, I don't know what Anthrax will do, but I tell you what though, if Anthrax do call it quits, Scott Ian will be in another band. 10 minutes later. I'm doing this now. Yeah. I'm hoping now of him stopping. I don't think, I think he's going to be playing for, you know, forever. But yeah, I didn't, there's something particularly nice about that, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's like a live show as well. So if you've not seen Anthrax live and you like them, you don't think that they're going to be like a tribute band. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You worship the ground, you barely walk on You can't prove yourself, but your angels are gone Deny your body's screaming But your heart and your soul are bleeding Just a fall asleep is a godsend Until your demons appear again I am a witness to your demise The biggest secret is one you can't keep Lift up your hand if you're only asleep You try to hold on to reason Why can't you see that you're leaving? My love for you knows no distance I can't fight your resistance I am a witness to your demise I am the one who saw through the blind I am the one who saw through the blind I am the one who saw through the blind I am the one who saw through the blind I am the one who saw through the blind I am the one who saw through the blind I am the one who saw through the blind I am the one who saw through the blind I am the one who saw through the blind I am the one who saw through the blind I am the one who saw through the blind I am the one who saw through the blind I am the one who saw through the blind I am the one who saw through the blind But your heart and your soul they are bleeding Just to fall asleep is a ghatsin' Until your demons appear again I am a witness to your demise I am the one who saw through the blind I am the one who saw through the blind I am the one who saw through the blind My love has always been blind Give me the one thing you can't hear Give me the one thing you can't hear Take me to the black lodge where you live Give me the one thing you can't hear Give me the one thing you can't hear Give me the one thing you can't hear Give me the one thing you can't hear Give me the one thing you can't hear Take me to the black lodge where you live Give me the one thing you can't hear Take me to the black lodge where you live Give me the one thing you can't hear Take me to the black lodge where you live Give me the one thing you can't hear Take me to the black lodge where you live Where you live Where you live Where you live Where you live Everybody in the band is just so easy to get along with And there's such a good rapport that it's kind of astonishing I've only been in the group a year I feel like I've been in this group ten years now Which is really good It's a real good comfortable environment The other thing that I got And it's funny you should say You brought up back to the beginning And something that I think is really important to talk about Is the sense of community that these bands appear to have between them now Yeah Because I don't know if I don't know about the scene back in the day But I don't know if it was You know like when some bands Where everyone's a little bit competitive Like that hair metal thing Was a very competitive Kind of world to be in And it was a little bit like Everyone was wanting to do the You know, be better than the other ones Yeah, outdo the Yeah, we can have a bigger rotating drum kit Yeah, yeah There's a lot of that Whereas I get the sense with this slot Whereas it's probably more like The grunge thing When they're all In each other's pockets In each other's bands Yeah, yeah They're all in everyone else's bands Yeah I think I'm not sure it was like that Quite so much at the time I think in the I think in the mid-80s it was Yeah, yeah They were all playing in the same places All borrowing stuff And you know People were in each other's bands And that kind of stuff And then I think Through the commercial years Probably not So those kind of You know The mid-80s to the mid-90s Probably I don't think it was Lots of these bands went on hiatus From like mid-90s through to the mid-2000s Yeah, yeah, yeah Or even later than that Probably like 15 Well, yeah I don't know Probably 10, 15 years on hiatus Many of these bands Yeah, yeah Just dining out on cash that was made You know, previously But I think now Yeah There's this I mean, so many of them died as well So many of them died to drugs And to drink and stuff Yeah, yeah I think there's kind of a bit of a camaraderie now Yeah Where, you know, we're all in it Yeah, I guess a dying animal, right? Yeah, yeah They don't make rock stars quite like that anymore No So they're like, you know, we went through it You know, so I definitely think there's an amount of that Yeah, yeah I sensed it this year Even on a little level When we were doing the download thing Yeah And the 2000 trees and things like that They'd never sensed I'd never sensed anything where anyone was like Not being cool Yeah You know, not being cool with each other And it all felt Everyone was quite happy to have a chat And hang out And It was Dan with you Yeah Dan That was Dan For those that don't know Dan Dan Dan looks rock and roll, doesn't he? Yeah, yeah, he is And we don't look rock and roll So we never We're walking through there And we're like, oh, somebody's dad's lost But then But then, like, Dan will be there And then, like, I don't know Like, Kiss just walk up to Dan And go, alright, Dan Yeah Like, Dan, how do you know that? It was the guitarist from Ghost, wasn't it? Ghost, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah And we're like, how do you know that? How do you know that? He's like, oh, I just know him It doesn't make any sense, Dan Yeah, it just is Yeah But he knows everyone, doesn't he? Yeah, yeah, absolutely That was Dan, for sure Yeah Everything's cool when Dan's around Yeah, definitely He needs to come on the show still Yeah, yeah People are thinking He's been saying this for years People are thinking he doesn't exist He played We did a thing the other day He was playing this Telecaster That he's borrowed off someone, mate Oh, that cream No, no, no It's a different one Like a Sunburst thing That he's borrowed off someone One of his mates Borrowed And it's like, that other person could not have that guitar back That's, it was like, he made it sing It was, you know Dan's good thing He plays an amazing player anyway But, like, this particular guitar He just connected with it on some ethereal level And, you know, it was the point where I was like I was like, I was just extending things By double or treble, you mad Just to hear him riff over it And have a great time I always remember that story Where we came back from London Yeah And we got Paddy in the back of the car And me and Dan Paddy was knackered Yeah So he was like, you know He's fallen asleep in the back of the car Yeah, yeah And me and Dan were playing heavy metal in the front And we'd forgotten Paddy was there Yeah And then, like, about 45 minutes into the journey I just heard Paddy go You two, stop playing heavy metal I'm like, oh god, yeah I forgot Trying to kip Trying to have a kip Poor Paddy was trying to have a nap Well, there you go Oh, do you know, we were We went through You know, when you kind of have that journey Of music We played everything from, like, the cult Yeah To, like, Carcass and Napalm Death And, like, all the bits in between And, like, we were playing Black Crows We played, like, Jane's Addiction It's really interesting Because I don't listen to music on the road at all Don't you? No I can't cope with it No We went to the Lake District It's like six hours Yeah Radio 2 all the way And I wanted to poke my face off It was horrific It was just, like, awful Michelle Visage Quiet music times It's just, oh god, kill me It's awful And then on the way back I made them listen to Tool and Perfect Circle For six hours I mean, that's quite It's wicked Yeah, it's proggy, that isn't it? So bloody good as well Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Do you know when it's kind of like Oh, it's just Yeah This is I tell a lie What I'll do is I'll be obsessed with an album And I'll have it rolling round Yeah, yeah, yeah On the way, and on the way back I'll do that a few times Yeah That's something that hits quite a lot If there's, like, an album that I really want to get into I'll use a car journey to kind of, like, lose myself into it a bit Into it, yeah No, I'm very much a listener on Yeah But then I've not got a car where my phone connects to it Hmm And I'm not a bit lazy to get CDs out Even though I've got the world's biggest We're going to do that in a bit, aren't we? It does Is this the first week of the CD pack? Yeah I Yeah, no, I listen to all kinds of stuff So I listen on Apple Music mostly Yeah And Both cars that I'll drive They've either got CarPlay or Apple Music in them So I can just listen And I like it Because it kind of remembers what I've been listening to Yeah, yeah, yeah So I'll be at my desk Yeah, yeah, yeah And I'll listen to music Yeah And then I get in the car Yeah And it kind of remembers Like, the last albums Yeah That I've been listening to So usually like the one that we're doing for the show And then there'll be stuff like in orbit around that They'll kind of, you know, you know what I mean? Like, for example, this week There's like loads of Armoured Saints Yeah, yeah, yeah And, you know, other bits of stuff like that Yeah, you see, I'm more of like a Chuck a podcast on an audiobook kind of driver Yeah, you do I don't, I can't do podcasts when I'm driving No I really struggle with that I do at home Yeah, yeah, yeah I listen to podcasts loads on But when I'm driving It's got to be music or nothing Yeah So like, yeah But Yeah, I do podcasts and audiobooks, I do Do you? Yeah, I do, yeah I like, I tell you I love Hitchhiker's Guide when I'm at home Yeah I reckon I've listened to Hitchhiker's Guide a hundred times Oh wow Probably The original, the original BBC Yeah, the original BBC one from the 80s I've got the original CDs Have you? And yeah, I listen to those Are they yellow? No They've not gone yellow? They've stayed silver They've stayed silver They've stayed silver Beautiful, I'll have you know But they're so, I've listened to them so many times I've kind of memorised Yeah, yeah, yeah So I know exactly what's coming And Leo, my eldest, he listened to it to go to sleep to From when he was like two or three years old I discovered that he would go to sleep to it Yeah And I loved it, so we would listen to that And now he's like totally Goated to it Yeah, yeah, yeah It's so nice to hear him come out with Hitchhiker's Guide gags Yeah And his teachers are like Oh, yeah, yeah You're one of us, aren't you? Yeah But yeah, it's cool But you know, I do listen I listen to loads of music in the car Yeah, yeah I like screamy along music I take, like music that I love when I'm at my desk Often I don't love Yeah, it's different vibes Like I've been listening to Dillinger Escape Plan a lot this week Okay Oh, last week It's Monday So last week I listened to loads of Dillinger And like between The Buried and Me And kind of that kind of stuff I don't like that stuff in the car very much No But I do like this album I like Sound of White Noise I like kind of stuff I can do Like Green Day Yeah Offspring Yeah, yeah, yeah Love all that You know, stuff that you can properly Totally Yeah I think I'm a bit of an old man though Because I'm like There's all this new music that I don't know And I'm not Oh And it comes on and I'm like It's alright Yeah Oh yeah, that's good No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no And then Pumpkin's back on Pumpkin's back on, yeah There's nothing wrong with that though, is there? Yeah I've got a CD in my car Have you? Yeah I bought myself It cost me two pounds I bought a 1990s copy of Superstar Car Wash Ah You've not got a vinyl yet though, have you? Two pounds Two pounds The vinyl Yeah 399 pounds And I'm just like, no Just, no It'll arrive though You'll find one One will come up for about 50 quid Definitely The one did come up One did come up about two weeks ago Yeah And it was on YouTube Not on YouTube, on eBay Mmm And I saw it within a millisecond I rang the store Mmm And he said, someone's been in to get it mate Wow And I'm like, what? That's, no Mmm Stupid Mmm Metal Blade Records produced it And I think they must have printed like five Stupid Absolutely stupid I tried to find a record shop in We were in a place called Whitehaven at the weekend I love Whitehaven Do you like it? I like the rum shop there Do you? Jefferson's Rum, is it? I don't know Oh yeah, no, you're right A rum museum They've got the harbour Yeah And it was lovely We went to a place called The Howling Wolf Yeah And had a burger for lunch It was lovely Yeah And I thought, I just, I'm just in the mood to go and look at records Mmm And the kids went, oh no, boring Where is it? There's the Pencil Museum Is that in Whitehaven? There is I don't know There's a property There's a Pencil Museum I don't know if there'd have been a Pencil Museum It might have totally gone Yeah But I, anyway, I programmed in the sat nav to go to the record shop Literally a man's house Wow And I wasn't brave enough to go in It was like a guy's house Yeah, yeah, yeah And looking online It's like, literally he's got boxes of records in his garage And you go and knock on his door and say, can I have a look in your garage? And he's like, yeah, you can have a rummage And then, there you go Where's a rummage? Where's a rummage? But I, yeah, I didn't, I didn't dare do it No So I didn't There you go What are we going to do now? Facts Um, I've got a short but interesting set of facts Short but interesting Is that a, do they call that a sting? Yeah, that's a sting Not the sting? No Every prayer you take Royalty's Yeah, he'll be there He'll be there He'll be waiting at the bottom of the stairs when we leave the studio with his hand out You owe me a tenner Um, this album, Sand of White Noise, was released on the 25th of May 1993 on Elektra The band's first album on Elektra Um, the first with John Bush, the last with Dan Spitz Now, I have a question for you Mr. Baldwin Yes Dan Spitz Yeah Not only left Anthrax Yeah Left the music world entirely What did he do? Oh wow, this is a good game It is You will not guess this, but guess Uh, I think So I'm thinking about Daniel Day-Lewis Yeah And Daniel Day-Lewis as an actor decided that he just wanted to be a cobbler And do shoes A bit like that So I think it's that kind of thing It is a bit like that Where you He became One of The world's Most eminent Master watchmakers Oh, that's so cool So he left Anthrax Got two degrees And then he went to study at Shopard And there's a There is a In Switzerland There is a Like a The greatest watchmakers of the world I've got a thing I can talk to you about that About But he went there Yeah Then Off air I've got a thing Actually I've got a thing Have you? Yeah, yeah, yeah Really interesting thing So he went there And you have to bear in mind that that school take ten people a year Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah And there are thousands that apply And he was one of the ten that was chosen Is that where Geneva is? Yeah Yeah Well, yeah, Geneva's in Switzerland, yeah Yeah So he did that And then he went off and did a bunch of other stuff And then became one of the master watchmakers He works on watches like hundreds of thousands of dollars Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Now he's got his own watch company Yeah In the US What's it called? Dan Spitz watches Something like Dan Spitz horology Hort horology Horology, yeah, yeah, yeah Something like that Spitzaland You've got to call it Spitzaland Of course you've got to call it Spitzaland What else are you going to call it? Oh my god Oh Okay He needs to sort it out Oh god Honestly Why is he not calling it that? Spitzaland watches Spitzaland watches Anyway Yeah, so not only did he leave music And leave anthrax And go into watchmaking But he's like Dead good at it Yeah He's like a world World renowned He's He's defined in the Information about He's one of the watchmakers that watchmakers call when they get stuck Really? So absolutely So if he was watching the YouTube video And the man who takes the watches apart Refurbishes them and puts them back together Wristwatch Revival Which is just dead good Yeah, it's one of my favourite YouTube shows He'd understand it He'd know where all those bits go Oh, he's the guy that the Wristwatch Revival guy would go to and tell I can't do this Mate, I've put this thing in the wrong place And he'd be like Oh, totally fixed you It's upside down you dickhead I need to But yeah, anyway I I just thought it was excellent I just think it's one of those things which is phenomenal That is so cool And the pictures That is so cool When you see pictures of Dan Spitz From back in the Anthrax days He looks like a heavy metal guitarist Yeah Then you see pictures of him now He looks like a watchmaker Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Totally different dude I'd definitely do that If my eyes were good enough And I could see They have all big magnifiers, don't they? Yeah I definitely That's what I'd do I'd do that Another top tips And we've talked about this before But if you like wristwatches And you need something to go to sleep to YouTube Wristwatch Revival Yeah And it's just I'm watching one when I get home now Oh, so good If ever I can't sleep I love it It's so calming Yeah, yeah, yeah But the thing is Even though it's quite calm There's like a story arc Where he starts taking things apart Yeah, I don't know Because I got stressed Yeah, you're going Oh, he's never going to know Where to put that back again And then as he starts assembling again Your heart rate And you're like Oh, he does know And it all comes out of the watch cleaner And it's all beautiful And then Oh, I love that a lot So that's like Yeah, what's that art called? That's got a name to it Oh, I don't know When you create tension And then you resolve it Anyway, yeah That's what he's doing He's very clever But he's good, yeah He is It definitely does that The album Despite Having fairly significant changes So the first one with John Bush The first one on Elektra Very radically different style It reached number seven On the Billboard 200 Which was the highest Their highest ranking album To that point So radical change New New, new things New production Dave Jordan Doing the The knob twiddling In the studio And Yeah, I don't think anyone Really knew what was going to happen No, no And absolutely smashed it It was certified Gold In 1993 So it sold half That's half a million units On the release year Has some lovely singles One of them My favourites Is Black Lodge Yes Black Lodge Was co-written With Angelo Badalamenti Yeah I don't know whether I've said that correctly You nailed him, mate We played that one a bit earlier Angelo Badalamenti Yeah It's nice to say it Yeah, Badalamenti Badalamenti Yeah Oh, do you know It's-a-me Mario Yeah You know when he goes It's-a-me Mario Like that on the Nintendo Yeah I always used to think it was It's-a-me Mario It's-a-me Mario Yeah, that's not what he's saying apparently Oh It's itsumi Which is a Japanese word Oh Which means super Super Mario Yeah God I feel educated now There we go Where'd I got to? I don't know if that's true Well, it is now But it was a meme, so It is now Yeah Oh, so Black Lodge Black Lodge Co-written with Angelo Badalamenti And Yeah, it was It was Part of Twin Peaks It was taken from The Black Lodge And Twin Peaks It was Obviously A crossover thing But bizarre Sounds wicked It's a wicked, wicked sound Bizarre track On an Anthrax album Yeah No Like distorted guitars It's really proggy Yeah, it's quite cool It's dark If Opeth Put that out Menacing You'd be like Oh yeah It's quite dark Quite menacing This is not a fact Well, it is a fact But it's not a fact There's an Amiga game Called Dune 2 Came out in 93 And me and my mate Tony Would put this album on repeat On his compact disc player And then we would play Dune 2 Till like 2 or 3 in the morning Yeah And then go to college the next day Yeah, yeah, yeah And when you're like I don't know how old it would have been then But like 18 or whatever I think that's what we're doing now Is it? I think we're doing the same thing Like Because we don't normally leave here until about that time Do we? No, no If we're doing it But it's like We used to And it was fine Yeah, yeah, yeah We used to get up at like 6 o'clock and go to college Yeah And at no point did I think Oh, I wish I hadn't stayed up till 2 o'clock Yeah Mining spice Do you know what I mean? I just used to like Turn up to Burton Technical College And smash out a maths exam And I'd be like Brilliant I'd be in the pub For the rest of the day And that was the way it was Yeah Right Yeah, so that was That was Black Lodge Very cool Very weird track For an Anthrax album But it turned out to be Big It was a big single Oh, it was a single? Yeah, yeah, yeah It was a big deal Producer change So Dave Jordan Dave Jordan produced Massive stuff And it made this album Sound massive Jane's Addiction Alice in Chains And yeah It's an interesting Tone change for me Yeah Clearly Lots of compression Yeah, yeah, yeah Apparently Dave Jordan Used this multi-mic Technique for vocals Wow, okay So To allow kind of Movement in the vocal booth And a bunch of other things Yeah, yeah, yeah There was multi Layers of compression On the guitar Guitars And you can hear it It sounds Yeah It's like It's got a punch You've got a weight Yeah, I like the sound I do like the sound I particularly like The drums on Only Yeah I'm just dropping that in Because you said it Because you said it Because you said it Somewhere else But I can't find Where you said that So I'm just saying it again So I can put it here This is where Only's going to go Yeah, yeah, yeah I'm just saying it's going to go to the floor Yeah, yeah, yeah I'm just going to go to the floor Yeah, yeah, yeah I'm just going to go to the floor Yeah, yeah, yeah I'm just going to go to the floor I'm just going to go to the floor Yeah, yeah I'm just going to go to the floor Yeah, yeah I'm just going to go to the floor Yeah, yeah I'm just going to go to the floor Yeah, yeah I'm just going to go to the floor Yeah, yeah I'm just going to go to the floor Yeah, yeah I'm just going to go to the floor Everything is perfect Everything is sick And that's it You can't tell me to stop it You can't tell me not to quit And that's it But move around yourself It's you and no one else Hard for me to stay Swing and moods have changed Calmness to direct Unpredictable Unpredictable You would see it Only You hadn't taken things out of my hands Only You never wanted to understand Classic ways to live here Compromise for me Yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah I'm at both ends of the spectrum You're somewhere in the between I come clean You'll fall around yourself It's you and no one else Hard for me to stay Swing and moods have changed Swing and moods have changed Darkness to direct unpredictable unpredictable you would see it only you had to take anything down on my hands only you never wanted to understand so you had to take anything out of my hands only you hadn't taken things out of my hands only you never wanted to understand only you hadn't taken things out of my hands only you never wanted to understand crucify terrify and sacrifice my whole life my whole life my whole life my whole life my whole life my whole life my whole life my whole life my whole life my whole life i can't contain myself i can't contain myself i just can't take myself the drum sounds gorgeous on this record it's it's like we talked about this before when we did sepultura and soulfly it's like some albums some albums don't need a gorgeous drum sound i don't think i'm trying to think has metallica ever had a good drum sound i don't think i don't think i don't think any of their record yeah the black album had a quite good one reload had a quite good one and load they were quite good drum sounds for me but i like that sound yeah for me they sound very generic yeah yeah very generic sounding yeah kind of yeah you know i do like generic american hard rock band yeah yeah do you know that's it's that's what it sounds to me i think maybe and justice has got an interest interesting drum sound yeah st anger's got a horrific drum sound yeah um biscuits in that snare isn't it awful and i like i love 80s thrash yeah that record sounds horrific but you know um yeah some bands have just never had a real like what i would consider like a like a exquisite drum sound yeah like like um Korn have got a really cool drum sound um sepultura they've got a really cool drummer they've got a rip they've both got really good gojira that drum sounds good gojira's got a really good drum sound and a good drummer yeah you but like some bands don't and and i think um yeah for me the anthrax drum sound up to this point was like standard issue all right american yeah the american thrash metal yeah thrash metal drum sound this album yeah doesn't it's got this no like it's kind of dry but it's got a it's got some ambience to it yeah there's a bit of room on it yeah it's very well it's very compressed isn't it she's yeah it's that as well proper proper proper good drums i love it and only really it just absolutely whips that out in your face yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um uh touring they did massive tour again they did um all of their albums they seem to stretch the release cycle massively and they would be relentlessly uh uh uh you know absolutely relentlessly doing stuff um i looked here when i did the blog on setlist fm they played in cardiff on the 9th of november 1993 and they played almost the entire sound of white noise album wow which is weird yeah so our bands even on the active tour will tend unless they're on the active tour will tend unless they're on like an anniversary tour like i saw um deaf leopard on the hysteria tour and they played the whole album and then they played the whole album and then they did some other stuff like it's part of the thing isn't it with a band with a band on a new album tour you might get three or four tracks from it and then they'll play some from the album before some from the album before um but on this one they didn't leave the whole sound of white noise which is interesting um the band and the to the track only that was the big single um gets called out as being one of the most important singles in anthrax's history anthrax's history it was one of the best performing and it's one that uh gets ranked uh highest so there are things like indians and you know caught in a marsh and there's a bunch of others from that that time period um but interestingly only is one that massively leaps out even amongst the kind of fans of the the thrash yeah yeah they still they still like that um it was initially released on compact disc and cassette i was trying to find this on vinyl yeah didn't happen this was at that era where vinyl just wasn't being released like the goo goo dolls superstar car wash he never got released on vinyl metal blade released like three copies of it in 2017 and now it's 500 bloody pounds and i can't afford that no so i treated myself to the compact disc it cost two quid you could well you could color it in couldn't you it just makes me very grumpy just makes me really really grumpy reissue it or something yeah dickheads yeah uh and that's the end of the facts that i've got there uh oh no did i don't did i miss another i don't think i missed another fact did i no i'm good that's kind of most good facts of the facts the thing is i don't want to do too many facts i think it's important we look in your cd flap should we play a song yeah play a song yeah i like this next one yeah and then we shall uh do have a look what is it what have a look have a look within the flaps what are you gonna play next i have to say your cd the flap holder smells yeah it's got a smell it's got a smell it smells it just smells uh package rebellion oh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh so we've just had uh a a conclave what's that so that's like a secret meeting like with witches yeah but we did it we did it live on it on recording that you've deleted that I've now deleted so no one's ever going to know the contents of what we just did I've forgotten I've forgotten it as well so the crux the crux of it was that we we did exactly the plan that we've been building up for for about a month which was opening said wallet of dreams we have and finding different cds yeah and then and then doing the tattoo thing and not agreeing on anything no just changing your mind for about 10 about 10 minutes it was excellent podcasting I have to be honest so I I've forgotten already what you so where we landed was we both chose one yeah and then we both splintered off on our own little journeys of discoveries going oh we could do that we could do that i have to be honest i think people that listen to this show will all really really empathize with that but you find an album that you've not listened to for ages and then immediately your brain goes oh what about this what i remember this and then and then you that's it you've gone down a rabbit hole i went down a stone temple pilot rabbit hole yeah so i went down a incubacy kind of incubacy silver chair all the tones yeah but we actually landed on white pony deftones white pony yeah so it's good time to probably do it i have not listened to that yet so i do you know what i'm gonna i'm gonna listen to their new album it's supposed to be mega it is so good it's nuts i've even seen um uh like like people that would normally be gushing over like 1980s heavy metal yeah you know and nothing released after 1995 is any good absolutely just raving about it yeah yeah so um they're a band that is um like you you rarely hear people say bad things about deftones no no you know what i mean they're i think when we watched them once at download yeah i think they had a bit of a rough day sound wise it wasn't quite they are a band that i think would like yeah there was but i think we just watched corn oh god or corn were like one side of them and that's just like live sound is yeah phenomenal isn't it yeah they they've they've got like some sound jedis going on but it's really good their life sound i think um but but then paddy was talking about the other week so he went to watch deftones yeah and said they were like they were like unbelievable really like another level yeah yeah yeah yeah i think um so not all bands work in like open air festivals you know some bands are like i can't imagine like Steven Wilson or porcupine tree working very well like that i can't imagine tool working very well in a festival in a cave or a forest yeah yeah tool in a forest well Steven Wilson in a cave see i can imagine tool working well in an arena yeah like you're in an arena show i can imagine tool being epic in an arena but i can't imagine them being like massively great at like bloodstock no not that they wouldn't no i don't mean like they wouldn't be great but do you know what i mean i think as an enjoyment perspective i think i'd rather see him in like an arena somewhere where you know where the sound is i don't know i kind of i kind of feel i want the sound everywhere and massive and you know being i want to be enveloped by it yeah yeah and you don't at a festival do you it's kind of like no not really there's lots of other stuff going on and bleeding you're either at the front and you've got people's piss being poured on you or you're so far back there's an echo yeah and you're like oh i don't get this but oh yeah they're hitting it and then you hear it a bit later and it's all yeah my feet hurt yeah i'm imagining my feet hurting already yeah thinking about festivals but i've gone for a weird laughter on your own oh god that's just that's just so true i've no idea what's playing there's a bit of an echo you've gone for a piss and my feet hurt we're just reliving the festival festival experience old men festival experience i could do tours of it it'd be great oh dear oh good god um uh but yeah that's it we're gonna do definitely we've not done deftones we've not really talked about deftones either i think this might be a bit of a springboard yeah into that whole kind of sphere of stuff because there was a bunch of stuff that was kind of happening around deftones yeah yeah um and they do have like there's like a certain set of people that like deftones yes agreed you say yeah there were there were the people at the time that were into deftones and glass jaw yeah two people that they were sort of the bands they really liked yeah yeah yeah that is very true yeah no i'm looking for them be good uh so well thank you for listening it's been awesome to have you with us and um i don't know what do the uh the youtubers say um sorry sorry let's see they say like and subscribe um please leave us a review follow and and that yeah yeah yeah that was good wasn't it yeah yeah it's not like that mate following that following that yeah that's that's it so uh we'll see you next time see you later bye bye