Show Notes
When Bradford Met Chaos and Made Friends
Hosts: Neil & Chris
Duration: ~85 minutes
Release: 30 June 2025
Episode Description
Recording on Neil's birthday in sunny Glastonbury weekend weather that feels decidedly un-rock and roll, the hosts eventually remember they're here to discuss Terrorvision's 1993 debut Formaldehyde after an expertly chaotic 40-minute warm-up covering heated car seats, Stanley cups, and why heavy metal fans hate Download Festival. This Bradford four-piece released what might be the most authentic, un-compressed British hard rock album of the grunge era, a record that charted at 75 and became a 550-quid collector's item despite nobody outside Yorkshire really noticing.
The album arrived twice, first as the Total Vegas limited edition in December 1992 with 1,000 CDs, 500 vinyls, and a 24-page photo book, then via EMI in May 1993 after being trimmed from 14 to 12 tracks by a man in a suit. Recorded at The Chapel in Lincolnshire for what bassist Lee Marklew described as "no plan B, it's either this or nothing," Formaldehyde captured a band learning their instruments while writing songs, mixing Faith No More and Red Hot Chili Peppers influences through a distinctly Northern lens. The Yorkshire accent bleeds through the vocals in the best possible way, and the production by Pat Grogan refuses to compress the life out of anything, leaving space and dynamics that feel wonderfully out of step with the mid-90s loudness wars closing in around them.
What You'll Hear:
- Why recording on a Saturday afternoon with police cars outside the doghouse felt more rock and roll than this sunny Glastonbury weekend session where Lewis Capaldi's back and nobody noticed he'd gone
- The tale of two release dates and why the original Total Vegas pressing with its mysterious cover numbers (906, 984, 53, 48) that even ChatGPT can't decode now sells for £550 despite charting at 75
- Gil Norton mixing three tracks (New Policy One, My House, Human Being) while Pat Grogan produced the rest, plus the Direct Metal Mastering technique that audiophiles thought sounded too clinical for 1993
- American TV dissecting US consumerism while Neil compares EastEnders and Coronation Street against The Simpsons, X-Files, Star Trek TNG, and concludes America just made better telly in '93
- Why the band toured with Motorhead in what Lee Marklew called "chaos," a combination that would break any 25-year-old tour manager and require counselling after three weeks
- Chris's origin story of hating organ lessons at age eight, sitting with his teacher eating sweets while listening to jazz instead of practicing scales, then declaring he wanted guitar and being told no, driving 8 years of desire that finally manifested at 16 with his first wage
Featured Tracks & Analysis:
Neil gravitates toward American TV and New Policy One for their big hooks and skippy-skip appeal, while Chris champions the songy ones, Killing Time and especially Desolation Town with its crunchy harmonica from Nick Roberts that wouldn't feel out of place on a Doors record. The album showcases Tony Wright's top-line writing ability, hooks that would only get bolder on Perseverance and even Tequila, embedded in arrangements that feel upbeat and energetic even when lyrics get dark. The production walks a fascinating line, bright and clinical and glary without the thick American compression that defined Morning Glory or Definitely Maybe, sparse and trashy like somebody recorded it five years earlier in the late 80s when dynamic range still mattered.
The Bradford accent comes through strongest on certain tracks, an authenticity marker alongside the palpable sense that these four mates are all in the same room making decisions at 3am in the studio rather than layering parts separately like Pink Floyd's increasingly distant approach. Chris notes you can hear when bands aren't getting on versus when they're genuinely together, and Formaldehyde lands firmly in the latter camp despite the usual band politics of loving each other some days and not others. The thermionic culture vulture discussion tangent reveals how even "pure" studio recordings get processed through analog distortion to sound pleasing, a reminder that audiophile notions of purity miss the point entirely when your expensive hi-fi isn't recreating what the studio sounded like but rather what sounds good to human ears.
Tangential Gold:
- Neil's birthday chaos: Leo and Barney fighting over a liquid chalk pen that blobbed everywhere trying to write the card, resulting in punches and Neil escaping to record instead of dealing with Formula One qualifying
- The Great Backpack Debate where Neil declares people can have three backpacks per year maximum, Lindsay took offense while wearing hers, and gym bros with five-litre water jugs somehow became status symbols post-Love Island
- Social media experts pontificating about abstract maths and science after watching Foundation or Three Body Problem, prompting Neil's rant that unless you cried at 3am before a maths exam aged 27, you don't get to explain things
- British TV in 1993 (EastEnders, Coronation Street, Neighbours at dinnertime, The Bill) versus American domination (Simpsons, Baywatch, X-Files, Quantum Leap, Star Trek TNG, Seinfeld) proving why the US took over the world
- Neil's loft full of computing history including ZX80 kit, Spectrums, Acorn Electrons, BBC Model Bs, Dreamcast, and an Atari 2600, purchased for £2 each 15 years ago when nobody wanted them, now worth fortunes
- Chat GPT describing the show as "accidental chaos and accidental insight" which Neil thinks totally sums it up, confirming they could talk about a packet of crisps for 90 minutes and still waffle brilliantly
Why This Matters:
Formaldehyde represents British hard rock before the suits fully took over, an album that charted at 75 but went gold anyway (300k sales) through word-of-mouth and touring, the old-fashioned way of building an audience in pubs where people sing along and have a giggle. Critics loved it immediately, with All Music praising "upbeat pop fused with rock funk and thrash" (despite there being no thrash whatsoever), and Encyclopedia of Popular Music calling it "a strong debut from one of Britain's most promising rock bands." Released against Nirvana's In Utero, Pearl Jam's Vs., Smashing Pumpkins' Siamese Dream, and REM's Automatic for the People, it's no wonder this localized Bradford phenomenon didn't break internationally, the epicenter diminishing with every mile traveled from Yorkshire.
The production philosophy matters because Pat Grogan and Gil Norton refused to wind up the compressors the way What's the Story Morning Glory would the following years, leaving dynamic range and quiet bits alongside loud bits, an increasingly rare approach as the decade progressed toward saturated CDs designed for Radio 1 airplay. By preserving that early-90s edge, Formaldehyde sounds refreshingly alive compared to the square-block waveforms dominating 1996-1998 releases. The band's hands-on approach to every production decision, their refusal to just turn up and play, and Lee Marklew's "no plan B" commitment created something authentic that resonates decades later. While Terrorvision became Channel 4 darlings by the Tequila era, this debut captures them before that polish, just four Bradford lads with big hooks, limited compression, and absolutely no plan except making it work.
Perfect for: Fans of pre-polished British rock who want authenticity over production sheen, producers studying what minimal compression sounds like in practice, anyone who remembers when Yorkshire accents bled through vocals in the best way, collectors hunting £550 Total Vegas pressings at car boot sales, people who toured with Motorhead and survived to tell the tale, supporters of the "either this or nothing" school of creative commitment, believers that 1993 American TV genuinely was better than British offerings, and festival toilet design enthusiasts who want Neil to interview the Sunday Times expert about mathematical models predicting Download Festival wee pools.
Transcript
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*Wheep* Mythology We're back, we are back With a vengeance on a Saturday afternoon It doesn't feel very rock and roll on a Saturday afternoon, does it? It's not, is it? You know, it's like, I remember when we used to do it in, I remember when we used to do the doghouse in the winter And it was, it was downstairs and it was always dark and there were always police cars outside And it just felt a bit rock and roll, you know, this is rock and roll Yeah Like Saturday afternoon Yeah, it's sunny It doesn't feel rock and roll, is it? It's very pleasant, it's Glastonbury weekend Oh, it is! Everyone's there You were telling me the, um, Lewis He's back Capaldi's back He's back Don't care I didn't notice he was gone Did you? I just didn't notice, I'm sure he's lovely He seemed lovely, I watched a documentary on him, he was lovely Yeah, yeah, yeah I didn't notice he was gone though He's got a nice gruff voice He has He's a banging songwriter Yeah, I can belt it He's a good songwriter, isn't he? Yeah I watched it, I watched a lovely video of him A lovely documentary And it showed him and his girlfriend at the time I think it was And he used to go and just bury himself away in this like little annex Yeah And, you know, play on his piano, bash out some tunes and that And his girlfriend basically thought he was a bit of a loser Just imagine that Yeah, yeah, yeah Look at me now Yeah, absolutely Very good Very good What else is going on at Glastonbury? Do you know what's going on? I don't know, I don't really watch it I'm not No Yeah, it's not really my It's Radio 2, isn't it? Radio Summit Yeah Radio 2 Yeah Glastonbury's Radio 2 scene Yeah It's I'll tell you what it is, it's in Mainstream Friends Okay Yeah, Mainstream Friends That's what it is Yeah, yeah Occasionally you get like Something Fun bands there Yeah Like you guys played there Yeah That would've been fun Yeah But it's buried away You don't get to see them, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah No Headline, you don't get I like, when I went, I liked St. Vincent when she played with her band Yeah She was great She was really, really good You just kept sending me pictures of like, how big it was It's massive, look it's massive, it's the biggest thing ever It is, it's like a city, it's like a city, but yeah, it's, it's, I've never seen anything so big Yeah I'm not sure, I'm not, I'm not, I've got no drive to go to Glastonbury, I don't know why I just imagine my feet would hurt a lot And I wouldn't really like it, I've never been, but that's, that's the kind of thing that I've got in my head There's lots of things that I feel like that about Yeah, yeah, I think, I think we're both of an age now where we both like nice soap Yeah, hand soap Yeah, like nice hand soap, I like sharp razors to shave with, I like comfy chairs Yeah, you're not getting those at Glastonbury Do you know what I like a lot as well? I know it's a bit, I'm a bit, this is going to sound really weird It's just, you know when you're like, I'm just about to launch into this And then I'm just like, oh, you should stop, you should maybe not say that But I really like my car, because it's got heated seats And I've been doing my couch to 5k Yeah, yeah It makes my back ache a little bit Yeah And I really like when I get in the car Put the heated, and it's lovely You can hear that warm, you know that lovely warm feeling Yeah, yeah, yeah And it warms up your back and you just think, oh, that's really lovely Yeah Well, it's like 500 degrees Celsius today Yes So I can't, and I put my, and I got in the car and it had the heated seat on I was like, oh, it's a bit overwhelming this is Yeah, yeah, yeah You've got, you suddenly feel like, you know, you've got the air cons blasting freezing cold air at your face And the heated seats are warming you, and you just, oh, I had to switch it off Yeah, yeah, yeah It made me a bit sad So, because you're, it's your birthday today It is my birthday today Happy birthday, Neil Thank you very much, happy birthday to me I haven't got you anything What have we got, you got, what have we got, we got Yeah, but you bought those I bought my own fruit pastels I bought my own birthday present I bought myself a copy of Wasps, The Headless Children An original 1989 version And it made me very happy Very happy I'm listening to that this morning And you've chose to come and do this on your birthday Which is very, you know Just getting out of the house That's commitment, isn't it? Kids are just fighting with each other I was describing this morning the kids like And they, so I kind of woke up a bit late And the kids hadn't written the card, right? So they hadn't written the birthday card Because they're kids and they don't want to do that So my youngest is really excited about birthdays He loves birthdays And my eldest is 14 Yeah, yeah, yeah And isn't excited about anything He's at that teenage point where everything's like And that's what you get from him And so anyway, Barney wanted to get him to write on the card So Barney had written his part on the card And then went in to give the card to Leo to do Now the other bit of the card was black And Leo decided to write on it in like liquid chalk pen Yeah, yeah, yeah So he got the liquid chalk pen Pressed down too hard It blobbed everywhere and liquid chalk went everywhere My youngest then called him an idiot So Leo punched him So now I've got like liquid chalk all over the walls and the floor Yeah I've got a card that looks like it's there And then both of the boys are punching each other So I'll tell you what I was going to do a recording instead And I just thought, do you know what? Yeah I've watched the... There's a Grand Prix on this weekend So I thought I'll watch the... Silverstone next week, isn't it? Yeah Are you playing? Yeah Are you? Yeah, it's cool You're going to do a bit of tunage It's cool there actually You play in the... The woodland bit In the bush In the bushes Yeah Yeah That's how I was saying to the lads Just to sort of let their hair down weekend It's mad I... I remember I took Barney last year I met up with Dave House And we kind of went into his bit And he'd been talking about Oh yeah, well we do this thing there At Silverstone And I thought, you know, you kind of Your mates say things like that Yeah Oh, okay, well, whatever I went there and like he owns Like he runs like half of Silverstone When you go there He's got this massive fan And you're like, what? Oh yeah, yeah, we do all that Yeah, yeah What about that bit? Yeah, we do that bit Yeah, that bit Everything you can see is him All these simulators Yeah And it was just mad So cool Yeah, yeah Such a cool experience Yeah Yeah, it's dead good Dead good But yeah, which one is it this weekend then? It's the Hungara ring Okay So yeah, it's Max Verstappen's home Grand Prix Yeah, yeah, yeah So yeah, it's good The qualifying's on now Okay Oh, so you're missing that to do this I'm missing the quality Yeah, but I'll watch it when I get back Yeah, yeah, yeah Do you watch it fast? I don't, I like I like I like the beginning bit Yeah, I like the beginning bit I like that Yeah, I do I like I like my Formula One Very good So, I'm Chris I'm Neil Yes This is Riffology This is Riffology You found us Riffology.co is the website and the blog and everything else You should go on that You should go on that You should go on that because that's really good Great Yeah, there's loads of stuff on there Loads of stuff And then this is the podcast that lives on that with that It's symbiosis Brilliant This is what happens Just nailed it People love this Which is strange Bearing in mind that we've just had seven minutes of not telling anybody about what we're doing Do you know But people seem to really like it I don't understand He said to me that it's like being with your mates in a pub just chatting about it Yeah, yeah And that, you know, I think there is this, I don't know, there's this isolation in modern life Where we are quite isolated now and it's nice I listen to podcasts during the day and it's nice, it feels like there's somebody else in the room I like it, I like the Blind Boy one That's the one I listen to the most Yeah, yeah, you got me onto that I listen to him every week But he's like he's talking to me, if that makes any sense at all He does that too there He does weird stuff where you have no idea what's going on for 20 minutes And then you're like, oh, that's what we're here today But yeah, anyway, thank you for listening to us Thank you for tuning in Thank you for tuning in And yeah, we're doing a TerraVisions formaldehyde We're kind of still on our British, I don't know, deep dive really We're just kind of looking at albums from the 90s in England that nobody outside of England really heard Yeah So lots of these records, I've chatted to a few friends over in the US Even, I was chatting to some friends in Australia this week Yeah, yeah I say friends of people that I work with And they were saying that they'd never heard of these No Which is weird because a lot of, we export a lot, there's a lot of similarity Yeah A lot of stuff like that So often where perhaps an album might not break the US It will still travel Yeah, and there's an Australian import Yeah, Japan is an area where a lot of the British heavy metal bands Yeah, that was a thing, wasn't there? Yeah, that was definitely a thing there Where bands perhaps didn't break the US But a lot of these albums just didn't break anywhere No You know, they didn't seem to It was like a, I don't know, like a localised, like this hard rock I'm trying to think of the way to describe it But like you wouldn't describe Skunk and Nancy as hard rock No I don't know what you would describe Wild Hearts as This is a weird, this is a weird thing where it kind of sits in like pop and rock Yeah And there's like bits of metal in there, bits of rock in there, bits of Against this background in '93 Yeah Of grunge, I guess Yeah, totally You know, hair metal's kind of done a, you know, it's done one Hair metal's kind of disappeared I say disappeared, there were some amazing hair metal records that were released around this time That nobody ever heard Yeah Because we were a band, there were four people in the band Say, like the drummer, liked AC/DC Which is kind of easy to play, I suppose, for a drummer The guitarist liked the likes of Motorhead The bass player liked the likes of KISS And I liked the likes of, like David Bowie, Elton John So when you put all those things together You sort of got a sound that wasn't one thing It was inspired by lots of things And it was like mixing ingredients that had been around for a long time But a new cake coming out of the oven Um, it was sweeter in parts and sour in others Um, chewy in bits And, um, yeah, that's, that's just the way it came out We didn't want a particular We weren't good enough to be a covers band Because we couldn't work out other people's tunes And so while we were trying to work out someone else's tune We probably ended up writing our own And thinking, oh, sod it, we'll just do this one instead And, yeah, and then, but all everybody heard in 1993 was Nirvana, I guess Yeah, yeah, yeah Um, and so against the background of that These albums They made a big splash in the UK This particular album was number 75 in the charts Yeah In the UK charts Yeah And that was considered good Um, but like, we're normally over here in the UK We would've had the top 40 Yeah So, I mean, this didn't dent Didn't touch it, yeah, yeah, no Didn't touch it Interestingly, um, uh, this was released twice Yeah In '92 and '93 That's a common thing, yeah The last couple have done this, haven't they, where Did this have more tracks on it, one of those sort of things, or? A little bit, yeah So, the first, the first version of it was released in December 1992 Yeah And it's called the Total Vegas Edition Right And they released it on their own record label before I think, was it EMI that picked them up? I'm just looking at my notes Should have been ready for this Yeah, EMI Picked them up eventually and signed them And then it was reissued in, in May So like the formal release was kind of May, 3rd of May '93 Yeah But it, but they sped it out before that on their own label Yeah Yeah Um, but where it gets interesting, I think, is that, that initial Total Vegas edition Uh, there were a thousand CDs Yeah And 500 vinyls Yeah It was all kind of done, you know, on a budget by them 24 page, um, like photo book in there Yeah, yeah About, about life on the road with them Like, you know, kind of, um, you know, the pictures I've got of you guys Yeah Like, backstage and other bits and pieces Yeah Like that, it's just full of pictures of people Yeah, candid stuff, people lounging about, people mucking about Um, it's like, there's like 24, uh, a 24 page booklet of that Um, the bit that I find fascinating, I just looked on Discogs, how much a copy of that is selling for The last one sold for 550 pounds Of that original Wow Of an album that got to number 75 in the charts and no one's heard of Yeah, yeah And you're like, what? What's going on there, yeah It's mad, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah The EMI versions sell for like 25 quid The usual sort of 30 quid, something like that Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Um, but yeah, mad Even, even like the cassettes are going If you, if you can find anything of that Total Vegas, the CDs or the vinyl They're worth tons of cash It's become really valuable to people Collectors almost They're weird collectors, aren't they? My friend, my friend, a Doctor Who collector Yeah, okay They're weird Yeah They're really weird Do you know what I mean? Like, like properly Yeah Do you know what I mean? So anal about things Yeah And it's, and it's all about like the, of the barcodes on things And, um, like there'll be an order of things And there'll be a, there'll be a slight change in a production run or something Yeah, yeah, yeah And they've got to get that particular Yeah, yeah, yeah And you can't tell the difference I mean, it looks identical Yeah You've got to have, got to have all of them This particular thing Yeah, I think collecting's weird Yeah Yeah Says the man who collects vinyl It's different I sent, I sent you a meme, didn't I? You did Yeah, yeah What do you like the best about vinyl? Yeah It's the, uh, the inconvenience and the expense Yeah, and it is that, so it is The thing I, do you know the thing I like about it? And holding that Wasp record this morning, does it for me? Yeah Yeah It's sitting there holding the thing I took the record out, put it on And then it starts to spin up and you get all that nostalgia of, of like the, remembering the first time that you did it I remember where I was and how, you know, and hearing the album, that Wasp album, The Headless Children was the first album that I think I pre-ordered Yeah So I went to the record shop, paid my lap, whatever it was, like six or seven quid or whatever albums cost back then And then Martin and Martin's records in Ashby went, yeah, alright, I'll tell you when it's here Wow, yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah You know, not, oh, it's here on the blah, blah, blah day It was like, yeah, well, we're expecting it in a few weeks, I'll give you a ring And that was it, then, you know, we didn't have an answer phone or anything like that And so, you know Just keep popping in Yeah At some point it'll show up But that was the first one But, but you, you take it out and then you, you've just got this physical thing in your hands that you can I don't know, it just feels There's just, there's something about that Yeah, yeah It's nice Yeah, I'm not bothered really about it Yeah, you're not, are you? No I like, I like having the ones of the ones that I really like Yeah But I haven't really got a record player or anything, I'm not really, I don't really listen to them I just You just put them on the wall or something, don't you? Yeah, I just like having them, you know, the ones that I like I want, I want your copy of "What Happened To The Get To Know You" Yes That was one of, I really like that record that you did, it's really cool And I wasn't around to get a copy of it when it first, when you first did it And I didn't, actually, it's on your website now, I should go and I should just go and buy it like somebody normal Like a proper friend would do Yeah, I'll support you I'll support you I sort you out I sort you out I sort you out Instead, no it's me going, "Can I have it for free?" Because I'm useless But yeah, I See, I didn't find television until later No, no me So this album was like something that, you know, I've had to go and listen to To kind of learn it and get used to it And there's a couple of tracks that I really, really like on it But I kind of like them when they did like "Alice, What's the Matter?" And "Whaels and Dolphins", "Perseverance", you know, those sort of things Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I really loved all that But by the time they got to "Tequila", that wasn't really I was like, "Oh, that's funny, but it's not really my thing now" I like the really grungy stuff that they did They did go quite grungy This album, I think, is really interesting in the tone of it and the production of it Yeah, it was Gil Norton, isn't it? Oh, okay, right So, kind of So Gil Norton did some of it But the production credit is Pat Grogan Right, okay Now, I can't find much about Pat Grogan at all In, like, stuff that he has done previously Or post this So, I don't know whether anybody I'm sure people will know The usual crew will write and tell me "You idiot" Of course he did these massive albums But I couldn't find much about Pat Grogan Yeah Gil Norton did Gil Norton did "New Policy, One, My House and Human Being" But he did "Mixing" He didn't do production He did "Mixing" on them And, of course, then he went on to do Massive stuff, yeah Yes, he did "The Pixies" But he did all kinds of I created a list somewhere I've got two sets of notes Which is really confusing for me Oh, Gil Norton So, "Echo and the Bunnymen" Wow "Pixies", "The Colour and the Shape" "The Foo Fighters", "Counting Crows", "Recovering the Satellites" Yeah, that's the one It was that "Colour and the Shape" and "Recovering the Satellites" They're the two for me Really sort of quintessentially Gil Norton's production He did "Echo Park" Did he? So, we talked about that last week Yeah, so he did "Book Rogers" and "Just a Day From There" "Foo Fighters", "Echo Silence", "Patience and Grace" Which I quite liked Yeah, he did "AFI" as well So, yeah, he did all kinds of interesting stuff But didn't produce this one No He was just mixing I wonder It doesn't explain why Just those three I think they were the three Were they the three singles? I'm just looking I should have probably prepared this before I started rather than Having you listen to read my own notes But I Yeah, I wonder if they were the singles Would make sense That like EMI went You know, these sound a bit crappy lads Let's go and get Yeah, it would make sense So, yeah, I don't know But there is an interesting production style to this I think It sounds I don't know It is You wouldn't get confused between this and a US rock album No, yeah, yeah, yeah I totally hear that I know exactly what you mean You kind of know it's not Like some of the British albums Started to Start to veer across And sound pretty big and thick and American Yeah You know that I don't know what they do with the guitars But they There's just certain It feels like a certain weight to the US Yes Stuff that's kind of It's More punchy Yeah More compressed Whereas the A lot of the British production was just I think it's a little bit cleaner and clearer But it didn't have the same Kind of It wasn't like a wave of sound No, yeah Like slamming you Do you I think you can tell Yeah That that's there This sounds quite I don't know like energetic and punky Yes In places You know what I mean It's kind of It's like a It's not a lazy album No It's kind of up and on its feet And it's It's moving Or even the slower songs are kind of up and on their feet Yeah They're kind of quite energetic I think Yeah, yeah, yeah So Yeah, yeah, yeah It's quite a cool I like the production on this album It sounds Yeah Authentic You know what I mean It sounds authentic It doesn't It's I mean we've talked about this in the past I I'm not a big fan of those albums that sound Like a You know Someone in a suit Yes Has given their opinion on it Do you know what I mean Yeah I kind of This just feels like This is the band This is the lads This is the Yeah The guys coming together and doing it Yeah These decisions were all taken in the studio Yeah At like three in the morning probably Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah Do you know what I mean Yeah And there's a certain authenticity about that That I quite like I mean yeah It probably could have been produced better It could have been made I mean Because it's quite quiet It's You kind of have to wind your volume up a little bit more Than you think you probably should do for this record Yeah, to get to it In places Yeah, yeah, yeah But yeah There's something I think as you go through the 90s That gets knocked off a little bit And the start Like by the time you get to What's the story Mourning Glory Yeah Which was what was that 90 Was it 5, 5, 6 Yeah, 6 I think Yeah But by the time you get there I think Albums that came after that Yeah The compressors were being wound up Yeah, totally And it was You know what I mean It was like How can we saturate the CD Yeah And nothing was released on vinyl No Like get albums that were released Like 96, 7, 8, 9 They're really difficult to get on vinyl usually So you've just got your CD dynamic range Effectively Yeah But just slammed It's like You know As you can You can see I think if you took records That were released in probably 92 Yeah Compared them to 98 You wouldn't need to listen to them You could just see them in the waveform Yeah It's just that square block Of music But And it was all done for radio It was all done To make them sound good on Radio 1 Yeah Yeah So when you release that big single You know When you Like when you release The Wonderwall Yeah It sounds mega It sounds like detailed And it's got this punch to it Which in itself is compressed on the way out I don't know if you knew that No I didn't BBC Radio 1 Yeah Is compressed On the way out to broadcast So if you do that So it's got a sound to it It's got I wonder if Like a lot of it is A sort of saturated sound to it When they moved to digital Yeah A lot of them moved to 128 kilobits Right Like down Yeah So like digital radio Before that FM radio When it was Like digital But it wasn't What are they called It's a DAB Yeah There's the different types of digital radio Yeah So the old frequency modulated The FM stuff It was much higher quality Yeah Than when they moved to When they moved to digital They down sampled it So I wonder if a lot of it Was to do with You know we do with that Possibly Yeah Masking it almost Yeah If you can't You know you're going to reduce The sample rate Yeah You compress it a bit So it sounds a bit more punchy Yeah I bet It's bound to have been a Yeah there's definitely a factor there Wasn't there A bunch of that in there But it's interesting to me That this This one is one Again One that It doesn't It doesn't feel over compressed to me It doesn't feel like it's been Wound up too much And I quite like that Yeah Bit punky He was born diseased With a twisted mind His hands His feet His elbows tied Sleeps by the day And in the night He cries The bastard son Of a travelling man Conceived and born In a caravan Lives where he couldn't Comes out when he can The bastard son of a rock star Played by an actor Get him Make a phone Because he died In a black star Hurt to booze Drugs and sex Wrecking mufflers And they got him Make all the rats Like a tantrum Trying it on To get his picture In the news Chocolate But he's put The same place That he's put You're trying to Be the outside Call This is the land Of the free Tuning in To 6-15 We always learn But we'll never need An American team Be circumcified Our liberty Fight the fight To succeed Living out The American dream An American team We bump into A U-S-M-A Always search For the American way Take a ride Out of the camp We can't Go to go again All time Let's salute All time For the man On the moon Now I'm too soon Now the ocean's bright But it's better And I'm fine Washing them To Tennessee We put the boys In the day This is the land Of the free Tuning in To 6-15 We'll always learn Pulling out my knees On American TV Such a fight Out of liberty Fight the fight To succeed We're living out The American dream On American TV I'm moved out By the country But we'll fly And we'll fight For our glory Uh-oh He was born disease With a twisted mind His hands His feet Is almost tied Sweep by the dam And the night He cries To the end of the day To the end of the day To the end of the day He's been born to be a man He's been born to be a man He's been born to be a man He's been born to be a man He's been born to be a man He's been born to be a man He's been born to be a man He's been born to be a man He's been born to be a man He's been born to be a man He's been born to be a man He's been born to be a man He's been born to be a man He's been born to be a man He's been born to be a man He's been born to be a man He's been born to be a man I'm a rock star Played by an actor Got a microphone Because he died And a black guy Bustin' blues Drugs and sex Make him a pandemic Got a bank on the rules This is the land of the free Tuning in to 650 Well I was one fool I would never need An American team Be such a fight I will live out a day Fight the fight To succeed Living out the American dream America TV America TV America TV America TV America TV America TV America TV America TV America TV America TV America TV America TV America TV America TV America TV America TV America TV America TV America TV America TV America TV America TV What's that quote from there? I'd buy that for a dollar It's an American TV show Yeah Where I I don't know No I know it's from an American TV show But I don't know I don't know what I don't know what it's from It would make sense But the song title But the song title would be in American TV Wouldn't it That would make sense Talking about TV This was released in 1993 What were the top UK TV shows UK TV shows What do you think the British The esteemed British population What if you believe everything you read on social media Won World Wars World War I and World War II And did all of the things It was all to do with British people What were we watching Do you know what we were watching Soldier Soldier No Casualty Yes but not Yes but yeah but no Heartbeat Gladiators The biggest Was EastEnders Okay yeah 21.8 million Yeah oh soaps of course Coronation Street Coronation Street Yeah One foot in the grave One foot in the grave Victor Meldrew Yeah Neighbours I was going to say Home and Away or Neighbours Yeah We had a thing in our house Where like religiously This was a thing that happened Yeah Is we would always eat Yeah When Neighbours was on That was a thing So it would be five About five It would be CBBC Or whatever it is And then there'd be Newsround Which is the bit at the end of Like all the cool cartoons and everything And programmes Yeah Then Newsround where it all gets a bit boring Yeah And then it would be Neighbours After that Oh And join Neighbours That was when dinner happened Well Every single day How did they How did they find time To create so many How did they not run out of things To do Yeah Anyway so you had that Neighbours The Bill Yeah the Bill I like the Bill Only Fools and Horses See all of these All had wicked Theme tunes They did You can Like the bit you remember In your head now As you're saying these things Is the theme tune Birds of a Feather Birds of a Feather Yeah Inspector Morse Yeah Emmerdale Right Yeah that was That was like a bit of a golden age Wasn't it for British content Bit mad isn't it I think Inspector Morse I never watched those No No Now then I'm going to compare that To the United States Okay So people sometimes ask Why you Why did the US Take over the world Right So this is what we got From the US So you think back You remember the EastEnders And the stuff that we got Right They gave us The Simpsons Right Baywatch Right Yeah X-Files X-Files It was in the US in 93 We didn't get the X-Files Until 94 But that was in 93 I loved it I went back And watched all of that From the beginning Did you And I've watched it Probably three times Beginning to end All the way through It was always Tombs That I remember Oh that's the very first show The very first show is Tombs Is it When he kind of squeezes Yeah yeah yeah I just love that I want my kids to watch it But Liz apparently tells me That there is That there's something About them being scared And not being able to sleep Another one that you will love Yeah Quantum Leap Quantum Leap Star Trek I used to watch that a lot Star Trek Next Generation Star Trek TNG Cheers Roseanne Seinfeld Fresh Prince of Bel-Air Yeah what huge programs All these were Murder She Wrote Yeah That's I didn't know that was US Angela Lansbury Yeah she doesn't sound Very American does she No Not necessarily in that one Beverly Hills 90210 Yeah Safe by the Bell Twin Peaks The Golden Girls Now Other stuff Like Home Improvement as well Yeah I remember that Was there Melrose Place Yeah I remember that But I have to be honest When you're comparing Like EastEnders Against X-Files EastEnders Not going to win Is it No of course it's not It's just not No So I It's interesting The song American TV That we've just listened to Is about The consumerism And stuff in Yeah Yeah From American TV shows But they were just better Yeah I mean Star Trek I mean Star Trek Star Trek was TNG TNG was just Mad I loved that It was so good Star Trek TNG X-Files Star Trek TNG And Quantum Leap Yeah what else do you want I mean You might as well delete Everything else Bit of Baywatch And off you go Yeah Dead good Anyway I thought I'd just talk about that bit Yeah that's a very good thing to talk about What are you watching at the minute We've not done a bit about what you're watching at the minute Andor Oh are you I watched the first couple of Andor And then There were no more Andor Oh you don't like that do you I had to wait You can't wait Because I had to wait like two weeks I forgot about it Yeah And now I'm like I can't go back now Until I've forgotten the first ones Yes And then watch it all again To watch So I don't And that makes me really grumpy Yeah yeah You see I can put things down And then come back six months later Can you Yeah I can't do that I can't And that's why at the beginning Where they do the little recaps Do you like that I was like oh okay Yeah yeah I'm watching Murderbot at the minute Yeah you've said that to me That I need to watch that Lots and lots and lots of times I haven't I really like Murderbot It's really funny Yeah But that's weekly Right And that's really annoying Yeah They're only 20 minute episodes Right okay And it's made me really angry That I have to wait a week Just put them all on Don't You've clearly already done them You're not People aren't working on this It's done Just get it on there It's not like EastEnders Yeah Just bash them out Yeah Dickheads Anyway so I don't like I don't like that very much And you have to wait for things Yeah Yeah But loads of new stuff's coming Isn't it Silo Yeah Silo's on its way again I love Silo What was the one that was on Oh Foundation Foundation The three body problem is back Yeah yeah As well In not too long A time So And that's like I have to say Yeah It's quite experimental stuff Isn't it Yeah Like foundation's hard It's not It's about mathematics Yeah it's not bubblegum It's not None of it's bubblegum Three body problem No It's not bubblegum It's not It's not You have to really think And watch it Do you know what I love About this stuff is That the There aren't many things I'm an expert in Right But like maths and code And that kind of stuff I'm quite good at Yeah And what I love about Social media Especially Facebook Is much worse than this From the other platforms But whenever anything Like that happens Yeah Everybody becomes an expert Yeah Do you know what I mean Yeah And this kind of This kind of layman stuff And you hear people Talking about like Abstract science Or abstract maths In like layman's terms Yeah As if they're an expert Yes And you just think No no no no You look very silly No It's just Stop Stop with the Expert things If you didn't If you didn't cry At 3 o'clock in the morning When you were 27 Because you'd got a maths exam The next morning You don't have the right To go and Tell people how to do that I remember Like literally crying Tears on my own In the dark Because I got a maths exam The next morning It was too hard It was just too hard I just couldn't do it And I've been doing this For like 15 years And I can't do it I've just failed miserably And then got into University the next morning And we Our blog They put us With the art students And you can imagine Like an oil and water mix Of mathematics students And art students And we got For the vast majority Of the year We got on really well But exam times Were like Do you know what I mean This was like We were like I don't know Like pressure cookers We were ready to burst With the pressure And then And I remember Sitting there And I was saying And I'm in the morning Chatting to my mate Going like I'm just out Right There's no way I'm going to make it Through this year And then the art students Turned up And one of them Behind us Was getting ready And she'd glued Pieces of silver foil Yeah To a piece of board Yeah And that was That was what she was doing And I just remember Just thinking What am I doing What Tell me how Yeah And she was like She was described How she spent a week A week Sticking the silver foil On it And you know And you're just like Totally crushed God I just don't believe this So anyway If you didn't do that Don't go on social media Talking like an expert There you go Because we'll just Sigh at you The ones that did We just go Oh dear And we do judge Yeah We do judge A lot And especially When people can't do maths I judge them a lot I don't Do you know My friend judges people Like really badly About their grammar Right You know spelling and grammar Yeah yeah yeah I think oh I don't care Yeah Yeah yeah You just think Oh I don't care Yeah But if you get maths wrong I do really get upset I'm like Why Why did you do that Anyway That's me being grumpy About things We didn't We've talked about Being grumpy About backpacks Yeah We've done that I didn't like backpacks Last week Lindsay said that she got upset Because she was wearing a backpack When she was listening to us And I said that I didn't like backpacks Did she take it after you She go oh no I don't know But Lindsay You're allowed to backpack I think it's a certain amount of times a year You can do three backpacks a year Is that what it is I think so Is that like some kind of rule Yeah yeah yeah I just don't like It's when It's not having the backpack It's like when you're on the tube Like if I've got to go and work in London I'm already really angry Because I'm It means I'm not really I mean I've been dragged out of my house Yeah And I like doing that on my terms Not being made to do it And then you get there And people got You've just got somebody's backpack in your face You're like what was that all about You see I was very mindful of this I was at a thing in Manchester for work Earlier in the week And I had a big backpack Because I was staying away for a night It wasn't like staying away It was like a Duke of Edinburgh backpack Yeah It wasn't like staying away so long That I needed a suitcase Or something like that Yeah that's really hard Yeah so I had a bit I've got a backpack that I've got For my motorbike When I go out on that Yeah And I use that one But it's like It's a bit bigger than a normal backpack It's not quite Duke of Edinburgh backpack Yeah But it's like somewhere in the middle Yeah And I felt very very conscious Of people going Why is that Why is it in my face Why is he not put that In the baggage storage area And why is he bringing this Into the room with him I also had a laptop case as well Oh wow So it was like There's two things I could get away with one Yeah you've got all the things But because I had two There was definitely some judgement That was happening Do you know the other thing That I've decided I don't like What's that Is you know these massive Stanley cups Why does everyone need Why does everyone need Five litres of water Yeah I don't understand it What is that all about No I don't get it at all I don't I think I survived Until I was 20 Before drinking water What is in these cups What is in I think it's a status symbol Oh I think it is I think one year Someone had one on Love Island Honestly I'm not joking I think one year Someone had one of those things On Love Island Yeah And then they've just got Progressively bigger It's like Of this particular style Of Stanley Cup thing Do you have I bet It's all girls isn't it Yeah Do boys have them Or is it just a girl thing I think it's just a girl But no boys have them Because it's the gym thing Isn't it It's like gym bros Oh is it Yeah And they've got They're like bulkier Yeah And you hold You know like massive Bottles of squash Yeah Where you have like a handle That's inside the plastic Yeah Almost Yeah Yeah yeah No I know exactly what you mean That's what they're like You can get bleach like that as well Yeah yeah yeah exactly They're like that That's my favourite style Of bleach bottle If you're buying bleach I always want one with that I always want one with a nice handle Yeah yeah yeah yeah So what do the boys put in them Like protein shakes No no there's just water Oh is it Yeah yeah yeah Yeah And they definitely hold it Like it's a thing Like a state I just I just think that people Will look back Yeah On this particular era Yeah And say What was that I don't like it at all No No Don't like it No Terrorvision Oh right yeah I forgot about that If you listen to this Sorry We've just had ten minutes Of Ten minutes Half an hour of me Whinging about the world We are 40 minutes in Which is pretty good We are 40 minutes in Pretty good for me What are your favourite songs Oh On this record Because I've got two Very clear favourites I like American TV Is one that I think Is absolutely brilliant And I like New Policy 1 as well Yeah They're probably my Two favourites That's kind of I'll sometimes Skip to them Oh okay Which A skippy skip Yeah well you kind of I don't know Yeah See mine were Killing Time Oh And Desolation Town In particular Desolation Town That's quite Song It's quite nice Songy ones I like the songy ones Yeah It's quite a nice Like you think of Terrorvision as being This kind of big Brash Funny Yeah But actually There's some really Clever songwriting on here And the hooks Are Yeah There's some really Like big Big hooks I think On this album Well I think as the albums Go on I think they learned How to Embolden them Perseverance And even Tequila You know I know that That's kind of A bit of fun A bit later But That was a big hit For a reason And that's because That guy can write A top line And that's the bit I got from From this whole record Is like This guy knows How to write top lines Yeah Yeah No Agreed Agreed It's a very It's a kind of Upbeat Fun Yeah Record Some of the lyrics Are not Yeah But you don't realise That until You know what I mean You're kind of Buied along by the album A little bit It's kind of one of those That makes you feel a bit A bit better You know It's an album you put on If you're not having A brilliant day This is a record That you like Yeah Gonna cheer me up A little bit It's a funny thing Because it takes you A lifetime to write a song Because You get a song And it lasts three minutes But it's taken you However many years It's You've aged In that Lifetime To get to that song And you use Subconsciously Everything that you've Picked up On that journey So Even though You might sit down And think Well I wrote that song In two minutes It's taken a lot More than that It's taken The experience That triggers The The Sort of sentiment Behind the song It's taken years Of listening to stuff And picking out The bits that you like And I always think That songs Are something That float around Above everybody And every so often A song will tap you On the shoulder And if you look up And listen You'll hear that song You don't really write it It makes itself Known to you And if you go And listen And you open your ears Or open your eyes And listen to that song Then it's your song If you If you don't listen Or if you ignore it It'll float on by And someone else Will get tapped On the shoulder By it And then that song You'll think Oh that's good But you think it's good Because you kind of Heard it before But it was a song That maybe tapped you On the shoulder And you just didn't Take the opportunity When it arose So It can be everything From a band That you hear playing To Two people talking On a bus In front of you And it might be Weeks later That you just Remember that line I wrote a song Took me two minutes To write it Sitting down With the guitar Because I read A phrase on Facebook And when I When I read the phrase Everything else Became clear I wrote the whole song After it Took me two minutes And it's a three minute song How does that work? 10pm In a cold and lonely Hotel room I think of you All the time My car was broke The same year Hundreds died My mum just cried When I told her So good to see you again Take my hand Take my hand and go I'm going down I'm going down To desolation town I'm going down To desolation town I'm going down to the end of the night I'm going down to the end of the night I'll call me down to the end of the night I'm going down to the end of the night I'm going down to the night I'm going down to the night Broke my bones I'm going down to the end of the night I'm going down to the night I'm going down to the end of the night I'm going down to the night Take my hand and go I'm going down to the end of the night I'm going down to the end of the night I'm going down to the end of the night I'm going down to the end of the night To desolation town I'm going down to desolation town I'm going down to desolation town I'm going down to desolation town Another thing about Terror Vision that I didn't realise is quite how Yorkshire they are Bradford, is it Bradford? Yeah, there's like I don't know if you have a dial of Yorkshire they're right up there in the 9 or the 10 you know, they're well and I like it how you hear the accent in the singing Yeah You really can not in every song but in some songs you know, it's really inflected with the accent There are a few bands like that aren't there? Biffy Cairo where you can hear the accent whereas others like The Almighty it doesn't come even in the slower songs his accent Ricky Warwick's accent doesn't really come across it does in this you're right you can kind of hear it you can hear the Bradford in it and there's something I don't know there's just something again, all authentic Yeah, it really is and quite cool and quite cool about it I think But the other thing is it sounds like they're mates Yeah That sounds so strange but you know like certain bands where he lives like when we listen to Pink Floyd Yeah I don't know about you but I can hear that they're not getting on Yeah They're not together they're all doing their own thing really well but it's not really all together It's kind of layers over the top But with this you can sort of feel that they're all in that same space in the studio doing this thing together There is there is that yeah there is definitely that vibe to it We're all good mates and to be together in a very closed environment for that many years you have different mates at different times different best mates at different times I suppose I hung out with Mark the guitarist the most so I'd say we're probably my best mate but I get on with all of them they're all my best mates it's good and I suppose at times you're the worst enemies as well because you can't get away from each other because you're on the tour bus and it's a very small space I think it's interesting where there are some albums that you can kind of hear I don't think this is in a positive or negative way I think you can get really great records where the band don't get on and you can get really terrible records where the band will really get on but I think it's interesting like you said that you can kind of feel it and I guess it depends on the type of music and songs and stuff but yeah absolutely the band just feel like they yeah I mean I guess normal band politics right they love each other some days and not others yeah totally yeah yeah yeah should we do some facts let's do some facts I've got some interesting facts on this one I'm going to go I should have had my notes ready and I've not got my notes ready so I'm going to start with my notes so I'm reading this from our blog on riffology.co if you want to follow along lovely little plug the band were not always called formaldehyde were not always called terror vision sorry they had a name first didn't they yeah they did they were called the spoiled brats and then they felt that they needed that that wasn't going to work long term for them so then they came up with terror vision which is taken from a movie about aliens coming in your television set television is the name of a television is the name of a old old film it's about aliens coming down through your satellite tv you can get special protectors for your dish to stop them from the horse's mouth there from the horse's mouth got two release dates yes 3rd of may 1993 on emi but the original one was december 92 called the total vegas limited release so when you're out there at your car boots and you're looking at things if you see this one it's got a different cover and it's got a little booklet inside as well so were they terror vision at that point yeah no there was still still terror vision but yeah it was released on the total vegas label as well on that first total vegas album there were 14 tracks and emi cut it down to 12 emi emi a man in a suit made that decision recorded at the chapel in lincolnshire i don't think we've talked about that much i don't know much about it produced by pat grogan who we've also talked about i don't know much about pat grogan i don't know enough to to know what else he did and i couldn't find much about him so um yeah interesting um some interesting quotes from the band the bassist lee mark loot said when we were recording formaldehyde there was no plan b it's either this or nothing wow which i think is naivety confidence or whatever you want to call it but um but you're giving it your all aren't you yeah yeah yeah you are totally committed yeah exactly yeah it's not it's not a hobby uh you are absolutely doing it um uh the band from bradford um originally called the spoiled brats uh influences by stuff like faith no more red hot chili peppers um the uh the band had kind of built like a local got quite a big local following um and you know it was kind of uh yeah uh started to grow based on that you know that i think they're like their pub these songs work really well in pubs yeah where people kind of sing along and and and have a have a have a big giggle with them and i think they built up quite a big uh big following from there before emi um uh emi noticed them um band members that uh they had some guesting on this album as well but you had like tony right uh vocals and wrote uh pretty much all the lyrics i think mark yates was uh guitars uh lee marclue uh was bass and then uh david shuttoweth on drums and then gavin wright was the violin uh on killing time and hole for a soul um and nick roberts does the harmonica on uh desolation town absolutely love that harmonica it's good yeah i love it i love the sound of that that sort of slightly crunchy dirty harmonica kind of wouldn't have expected it in a terravision album no but i think it works really well i think it's very very cool um i can't play harmonica okay why no you can play everything no i i just kind of as vision if somebody walked in here with like some kind of weird aboriginal string you'd just be able to pick it up and go yeah i'll play it i can't play anything that you blow or bow oh that's my rule anything that you blow a bow rubbish that's interesting that is i'd be interested to see whether i can do uh bagpipes and um because although you blow into that you you're not blown that's not what's making the sound you just what's your favorite song with bagpipes on it i like cut that corn one oh yeah oh what's the acd one acdc oh yeah yeah i can't remember now oh my brain's gone yeah he did that download he brought out he's like the old uh bagpipes corn man jonathan davis he always does doesn't he yeah he likes it i've asked chat gpt i've literally just said acdc song with bagpipes it's a long way to the top oh it's in yeah cool that's my favorite uh song with bagpipes um i've forgotten where i got to where did i get to uh harmonica different different band members oh yeah yeah yeah got it yeah yeah yeah got it um and so and uh in the bit of this part of my notes the we're talking about the original um vinyl pressing so there's only 500 of those um uh the artwork was by the photography um david obadiah um and that's a made of name it is isn't it it's not a real name no no no his mom and dad never said oh we'll call him we'll call him david um anyway uh they uh yeah so that that uh that's there there's a quote in there who i wanted to go to this part um owen obadiah that's a nice name owen obadiah it just rolls off owen yeah owen it'd have to be welsh owen everybody everybody who's called owen yes is welsh yeah yeah yeah i like that yeah sorry i interrupted you um oh yeah so there's a lovely quote here it said uh we decided we wanted to put this 24 page photo book into it because no one buys records for the music anymore wow 1993 1993 isn't that interesting yeah really really interesting that uh i guess steady decline almost in this uh perception of the value of uh the music of music itself yeah um the the band were incredibly hands-on with the music they get credited for production and stuff in there but um they didn't just turn up and play and go away yeah they were kind of incredibly hands-on with um uh you with with the creation of of the stuff um there's another interesting thing here as well it was mastered using something called direct metal mastering okay now i had to look this up so normally when you master it's like an aluminium disc and then there's lacquer on the top yeah and then you you kind of uh it's like etched into the top of that yeah and then it's kind of hardened and then the actual master discs are made from there that are used to stamp out the the vinyl the vinyl yeah yeah uh direct metal mastering is like this kind of copper covered disc that it's actually uh cut into it's kind of group get cut into and it's a lot harder and you don't get this uh distortion from that entry stamped um so it's better yeah uh but people uh back in the day didn't like it because they said it sounded too clinical wow and they like the harmonic distortion which is the same thing people argued about for cd so cd sounded too clinical because it's not got the same why people still like valve guitar amps and all the all that stuff yeah it's like the sound of that warmth and the distortion yeah yeah weird isn't it but i know i i thought that was an interesting tidbit um there's an interesting device um when we were doing circularity and we were in nick nick bryan we were we were going through the like the mix so when you do a mix you obviously mix all the different instruments together yeah and then you'd bus it so you'd normally have groups of like say drum group vocal group guitar group whatever and then at the end of that you'd have a mix bus yeah this is your kind of like stereo audio left and right being able to pan and and all those yeah yeah and on that you tend to have something on your chain something some kind of processing going on on that and what nick had the the i think someone like loaned him or lent him it for a bit it was something called a a thermionic culture vulture i've heard of these yeah yeah um and it's an amazing piece of analog gear yeah you put things through and it applies a particular kind of distortion distortion in a particular way the analog yeah queens of the stone age yeah uh were a big fan of of putting lots of things through that to get this kind of particular sound and he had one and we did the thing where we you know we closed our eyes and he sort of say you know which do you prefer i've only done it subtly it's not like loads but yeah which version of this kind of sound do you prefer yeah and he obviously had it as a real piece of hardware it wasn't plugging it was a real real thing and everyone's closed their eyes and went yeah it's got to have it with it it's got to have it with it so so the final how interesting is that before it went to mastering yeah yeah this um of this record circularity that we did has um because that thermionic culture vulture i always think this is really if you listen to audiophiles talk they always talk about you know the purity um without realizing that there's no such concept of purity if you listened to how it sounded in the studio you wouldn't like it no it doesn't sound good no you're not you're not um you know that's not what you're doing your expensive hi-fi is doing um and it totally makes sense to me that there are certain frequencies that we prefer and we like in certain frequencies that we that we don't like no no um and harmonics and things like that and so yeah i totally i totally get that i think you know the the the digital chain from end to end is you know clinically precise and exactly what was recorded yeah but the reality is that's not what you actually want to hear no you know and and you can see that like if you look at live music for example yeah there's so many this matter if you look if you look carefully the next time you're a live gig you'll see racks and racks of hardware yeah yeah and and there'll be a sound engineer somewhere and it's all being processed yes it's either going through analog stuff it's going through digital yeah and do dsp it isn't super clever tech around now it is but it's not what it's not what's coming out of the instrument no no no it's something that and it's made to make it more pleasing to your to your ears so um yeah don't buy into the the nonsense i'd love to see what um billy joe armfrung's vocal chain is like okay because he just see us through the mix but yeah but we had a particular yeah yeah frequency range and dynamic you know in a it's really interesting it's kind of like it doesn't sit where you'd expect a vocal to sit okay you know it is it's interesting to listen to there's a there's an album i want to do next which we'll talk about in a bit yeah um and there's a fantastic story where it was recorded twice yeah and the second time they brought their live sound yeah guy into the studio and he produced it yeah because they wanted it to sound like the live thing yeah and i just think that's it was really fascinating to me the first version went into a studio and just sounded really flat it was sounding it was very pure but you know everything was done layer after layer after layer like i guess like a pink floyd record would get done but this was a rock and roll band and they it didn't work so then they the record company to fund it again yeah this is a debut album yeah if anyone knows what i'm talking about by the way this is it was a debut album um no one had heard of them yeah and the record company was so convinced they were going to be mega stars they completely re-recorded the album again um but this time with the sound guy and that's the one we heard we'll talk about that in a bit because i think there's a lot of it there's some cool stories for that album yeah um well god where did i get it oh yeah so the albums formaldehyde was um 93 uh recorded by uh produced by pat grogan um and then we had how to make friends and influence people which was uh gill norton regular urban survivors by gill norton um and then we had a bunch of stuff where you could yeah so shaving peaches in 98 uh good to go super deluxe and we are not robots in 24 prolific weren't they yeah big records or self produced um uh didn't get any awards from aldehyde no so it didn't get any awards at all um uh the single my house yeah uh became a top 30 hit in the uk charts but it was the only one really that that charted yeah um other stuff released in 93 what do you think i don't know loads of big american grinch stuff yeah in utero nirvana siamese dream honey versus from pearl jam yeah um automatic for the people that's such a good record get a grip by aerosmith we should do rem we should definitely do i'd love to do that yeah and there's a love somebody somebody was sharing a meme this week we've got president trump yeah and rem saying can you tell it is this president trump singing or or and they sound the same they sound like so similar and i'm like no way so that's it that president trump uh used to sing for rem um get a grip by aerosmith as well um and zuropa by u2 i'd gone i i can't i like the first couple of u2 albums yeah yeah i like um i like the one with van diemen's land on whichever one that one was gone off by this point um yeah so lots of big heavy i mean lots of big big thick stuff so you kind of think you're fighting against all of that stuff it's i don't know it's no wonder really yeah yeah yeah we've talked about that um yeah in in the past um lots of short songs yeah yeah which is good we talked about that i like the short songs um i mean you could squash the whole album into one song couldn't you yes for this which would be good 45 minutes long um touring the big big tour for them was with motors motorhead television movement they went on tour with motorhead that was bananas lee markley said it was chaos just can't imagine i just cannot even imagine that if somebody somewhere was a tour manager for that can you imagine that yeah yeah yeah it'd be like some 25 year old yeah and and the label or you know live nation or somebody will go yeah do you know can you go and do this oh motorhead that and then terror and they're all right and then three weeks into the tour they're like quitting and needing counselling and stuff but that is again if you survived that you could do anything yeah that would be absolutely bonkers i think there'd be an exam in that one though yeah it's kind of like the it's like the practical you know observation you've done the theory you've done the theory of school and college and now the practical is you've got to do this with motorhead mad absolutely mad that is um five things about it we've already covered all of them yeah so it's limited original release um the uh hidden bonus material that first pressing included this 24 page photo book called the tv guide which is pretty cool i've never seen it um but uh i've seen pictures of it um had guest musicians on there so i had gavin right that one made it 500 quid do you think oh that's interesting no i think because it's so rare okay but 500 copies of it um you have an album like that it's just it's just pretty rare um album was mastered using direct metal mastering which is pretty rare german thing um and the mixing was done by gill norton he went on to do or did work with the pixies and and a bunch of others that we've talked about um no media and tv usage that i can find they did have like tequila's used all over the place yeah but nothing from from this album um generally speaking the critics really liked it um there's some weird descriptions of it all music said upbeat pop fused with rock funk and thrash there's no thrash not even close to thrash in this it's kind of it's a hard rock in there a little bit of like new wave of british heavy metal in there but it's it's mostly kind of like pop hooks and rock it's it's uh yeah it's super cool i think um uh encyclopedia of popular music said it was a strong debut from one of britain's most promising rock bands yeah so yeah there was it was well received then yeah i thought it was really interesting uh that kind of stuff and that's the end of the facts for uh for this album i will say you know it was difficult to find facts about this record there's not that much their wikipedia page is pretty bleak yeah um and yeah there's not much about it no no as with last week it's hard to find interviews you know some of these bands where we've done them in the past there've been loads of interviews we can choose from from that era yeah yeah but these ones i think they're not quite they it feels like the these last to this one and and and last week uh polythene they feel very local yeah do you know what i mean it feels like they're albums that you kind of like i wouldn't expect somebody from the u.s to have ever heard of terror vision no yeah you know and um yeah it's like there are some uh bands like bush you think everybody everybody on the planet knows who yeah yeah uh you know everyone on the planet knows who pink floyd are um but like this one i kind of think if you like it was almost like the the epicenter's bradford yes and every mile you go away from bradford fewer people have heard of yeah you know i mean that's kind of where where i kind of how i feel about this is is that it's um uh it's quite a it made a big impact here on us yeah but the broader you go the the less impactful yeah or the less people have heard of it i think yeah yeah yeah i certainly but you know i think by the time they got to tequila it was a lot broader but this record particularly i think um probably was um you know around here well heard of and well known yeah but probably less i mean probably down in london i don't even know whether you know i mean i guess the further well i just recall i mean but it was after this but but they were kind of the darlings of things like tfi friday yeah the big breakfast and that kind of channel 4 culture these guys were really a part of that i felt we're talking about in one of the interviews you had there was a uh uh the presenter was talking to him and i swear that was cat deely and it's made me think where is cat deely yeah where's she gone she was everywhere wasn't she yeah she was dead good and then she just disappeared gone yeah yeah i don't know aliens there she's under the pyramids she didn't have her uh she didn't have her teravision dish did she no no have you seen have you seen that there's the uh the um but the the x-ray thing they did under the pyramids no have you not seen that i love all this stuff i know i i knew because we talked about pyramids before and um uh so somebody's done it's like they like bang they're like bang is it lidar lidar no no it's not like oh it's like a vibrationy thing okay so they're like they do a vibration thing and then they look to see how the ground vibrates yeah and then they can you can see the structure it's like a geological thing and it shows the it shows these bonkers um like like pillars underneath really the pyramids yeah i'm well into that i know you honestly check it out you'll love it but that's where cat dealie is she'll come out imprisoned in the stargate yeah sure in the stargate yeah it wasn't that a great film i used to watch that loop i like the series stargate i didn't catch it i watched a couple but yeah yeah there was a few of them wasn't there there was such a good time for that it was when the sequest dsv it was when the amiga got powerful enough to do all the um do you know you know you know you know i mean all the cgi stuff and you had like uh uh ds9 and stargate and all that in amiga yeah they were nearly all done on amiga really yeah yeah tons of them were done on amiga on like uh whatever it wouldn't have been the 1200 no one with the two it would have been the ones up from the 1200 really but yeah loads of them were done on that i can't remember what the there was a bit of software that was 500 plus i did with an external disk drive and deluxe paint i've still got i've still got a 500 i've got a i've got a cartoon classics pack oh my god well you can remember from being a kid team 17 yeah team 17 yeah well i've in my loft i've got these big black boxes full of like silica you know uh packs and stuff in there and they're full of old computers like really yeah zx8 is that my first zx80 i've got a kit zx80 that's not been built um yeah i should change what we should just do a computer museum here loads of zx spectrums uh uh a 48 um a 128 with the stupid keys yeah yeah we have one of those old wooden ataris right the 2600 yeah yeah they were fantastic with a little cartridge you just blow it yeah yeah and then i hope it would work and i had a nest and i don't know where i don't know where they've gone i've got a dreamworks in uh oh not dream dreamcast yeah and then other other stuff is in there as well so uh there's acorn electrons uh bbc model b's and uh yeah so i've just i as i found them over the years they get the thing is now they're really expensive yeah but there was a period like 15 years ago yeah yeah that people were just giving them away yeah of course so i just want to get out of it yeah give you two quid or whatever museum yeah should have a computing museum all computers loads and loads of that um i keep wanting the kids to get excited about it so i show them retro games yeah they're like no it's rubbish it's a potato graphics yeah it wasn't about the graphics yeah yeah this is jet set willy yeah yeah yeah rubbish rubbish how many it's only got 20 levels so yeah but you can't do level one yeah you're going to be here all day aren't you rubbish don't like it manic miner that was why why it's my control i can't get my controller to worry there she's the keys dickheads modern kids are so spoiled aren't they yeah yeah yeah it's all done for them so spoiled so spoiled i i saw a brilliant uh thing this week that someone had done ai this ai is getting so good isn't it yeah and it was about gen i'm going to get the gen wrong here but like gen alpha or the gen z z gen z uh which would i don't know how old they would be now um but it was about if world war three happened right now yeah um they'd have a dance battle or they'd have a meme battle yeah yeah that's how you win the war that's how you win the war you're not you're not going to do we're not going to do fighting what we're going to do is he's most creative at memes i just thought it was very funny and it made me laugh right what we're going to do next let's put a song on yep and then i think i already know what we'll do next maybe because i know which one i want to do yeah but i know that you've got a big bigger connection to the one that came after it okay so i think we're gonna have to flip something to like a pair of headphones there was the keys last time wasn't it it was that was brilliant podcasting wasn't it so we'll have to flip something and then um okay i don't know what is that on that was that stapler thing up there uh that is a pick carver you put your card in it and you can cut a pick out of it spectrum out of what a card anything card what credit card put a credit card in it what's it meant for though that exactly that what just taking random people's credit cards and making a pick from it yeah well how many times do you have to be in that situation where you need to make a pick from a credit card to need one of those we never know do you you never know how many times have you made a pick from it i've never done it whose is it i don't know and the man who came to dinner said i wasn't stopping long i brought a present trapped in misery and a bottle of sad songs he still said come on in make a safe battle one would you like a dream let me take your call hold i stand well back in the corner with a sneer on my face i've got the weight of the world on my shoulders ready to fall on this place he still said come on in make yourself at home make yourself at home make yourself at home would you like a dream let me take your call hold and i fuck like one of the family and i can be whoever i don't wanna be i said i fuck like one of the family i can be whoever i don't wanna be i said i fuck like one of the family i can be whoever i don't wanna be i said i fuck like one of the family i can be whoever i don't wanna be i said i fuck like one of the family i can be whoever i don't wanna be i said i fuck like one of the family i can be whoever i don't wanna be i said i fuck like one of the family i can be whoever i don't wanna be i said i fuck like one of the family i can be whoever i don't wanna be i said come on in make yourself at home would you like a drink let me take your coat you said come on in make yourself at home would you like a drink let me take your coat you said come on in make yourself at home would you like a drink let me take your coat come on in come on in come on in come on in so when i was about eight my mum bought an organ and it was quite expensive and so i had to go for organ lessons probably to make up for the fact she'd bought this expensive organ that she wanted to play but she couldn't justify it so the kids had to learn it but i hated it so i learnt how to play a couple of scales on it and then my organ teacher realised i didn't want to play this thing so when i went for lessons he'd check i knew my scales and then he used to play like jazz and i used to sit there and listen to it eating sweets and then i got found out and i was told i couldn't go to organ lessons anymore and in the car on my way home crying like you do i'm sorry i'm sorry um i went i didn't want to play organ i wanted to play guitar and i got told i couldn't play guitar and i suppose that was the thing that was like being told you can't have something made me want something more so i'll have been about eight but i didn't get a guitar till i was 16 it was the first thing i bought in my first ever wage yeah i did this thing earlier where i was as we were going through i was thinking i wonder if we're going to do like a short one yeah you know like we're about 40 minutes like yeah we're probably about to wrap this up soon nope to be fair i think we could do a show about like a packet of crisps and it'll be an hour and a half it'll still be 90 minutes long and we'd still be waffling and gassing about it and like not know what we were doing so there we go i did we we fed in the transcripts of the shows into chat gpt and so we were like you know help us figure out what to do next what kind of album should we look at and you know help us get what what is what what is the show identity what kind of how you know how how should we market ourselves and and it came up with this accidental it was chaos and accidental insight and i thought that totally sums it up yeah yeah it is yeah um so anyway i thought we could do a bigger we've done lots of um uh these smaller records and records that people haven't probably heard of yeah and i thought we'd do oasis next and then we'll we have to because it is it's about oasis o'clock isn't it because they're doing they're gonna do their thing and i've i've been listening to lots of interviews with noel lately and liam and i don't know liam is just you totally go to the pub with liam wouldn't you i mean and he's he's just just does dead good fun and he made me a cup of tea once yes and so that's lovely yeah um uh but there's lots of stories about making of these records there's lots of interviews about them so but i thought like my i really like definitely maybe yeah yeah and then kind of each record that came after that i kind of liked like 50% less yes you know what i mean i don't like that very much and so they lost a bit of that authenticity to me so that i like definitely maybe um but i know you've done stuff in the same studio that what's the story morning glory what's the story morning glory sold more copies yeah um so it's kind of the bigger of the two but i think it's time for the story morning glory sold more copies yeah um so it's kind of the bigger of the two but i think it's time we did a big record and then i think after that we could do um uh one of the blur records yeah great yeah great great and then i forgot an idea oh god why don't we do both there's one episode both there's one episode yeah so we do we do live oh my god forever album uh definitely maybe oh my god and then we also do what's the story is like what is like a is like a big oasis one a big oasis special and then we do a big blur one what was it what would they they're two big records well because they had a part life which is a big one then um number two what's it called oh i don't know well that was 13 that was our 13's a mega album right but there were but you see these two were like the same era like definitely maybe in live yeah yeah yeah you want to call it live forever definitely maybe in what's the story i don't want to live and then the other one is um blur i think there's a bit of time between those two right oh okay well no let's figure it out then let's let's well let's do that we don't need to toss anything do we don't need to do any of that no i've even got the keys ready in my hand yeah he's got his keys ready well they're the keys to the studio yeah yeah so if the writing was up yeah that was one thing if the writing was down the other but i wasn't paying attention all right last time well let's do that then let's do let's do um yeah so we'll do next week we'll do yeah i don't want to spend too long on it i kind of want do you know i've been listening to this week i've been listening to napalm death and carcass yes and um yeah it's like if you had that on a scale of like that and oasis they're not the same they're not the same scale and and there's a but there was a ton of british cool british bands yeah that were doing um i don't like cathedral yeah there was a ton of like really heavy stuff you know what we should do actually come to think of it yes we should do the oasis one yeah and then do a sabbath one because because of the sabbath thing yeah yeah yeah yeah what album would you do volume four master reality i don't know because i'd like the one with war pigs on it what's the first one yeah yeah i i have to admit i like all of that first that those first four black sabbath records yeah they're just phenomenal yeah i mean they're they're records that you just can't i don't know like most albums you think oh yeah there are bits that you could take or leave yeah those four records i just think are phenomenal yeah um especially against the backdrop of where they were yeah and what else was happening at the time um yeah that would be brilliant so we'll do it let's do oasis yeah belur and then black sabbath yeah um and then but i don't know let's see what we'll probably do at the end of that is figure out what we do because i was gonna say because we're getting into the point of planning now and i'm not sure it won't last will it but i think we've done as a high level plan i think we should kind of go back and do some more us stuff yeah yeah because we've been yeah we've been very uk centric for a long time which is great yeah um but i would love to go there's a whole bunch of us records i would love to do that we just haven't haven't done yet you know i mean we talked about doing a bunch of the green day and the pop punk stuff um then there was the kind of the i guess where like thrash went like it ends up going into this kind of um like big thick hard rock stuff where you got load and reload and risk and all of that stuff um kind of radio friendly us rock stuff um yeah there's loads of cool things there's a few albums that are just so the whole premise of the show was the albums have got to be 25 years old yeah um but there's some now we're kind of into like 2001 yeah so that's why i like time because as time goes forward that means that we unlock more albums i love time time is brilliant yeah um do you know i don't know uh uh that that thing where the older you get time passes you type you perceive last week i'd lost my mind last week i didn't know what like i had no idea like last night because we were gonna do this last night it's now saturday it's your birthday it is it was your birthday eve yesterday it was and we were planning on doing it last night we were yeah and i messaged you and went no yeah i was like i'm really i've hit a wall and i'm not doing anything i think that the beauty of having your own show is you can do what you want yeah and i think that's what's worked well for us hasn't it not being told what to do and not being i don't know yeah we could do anything we could do and i'm i don't know you're the same a little bit i don't know that if somebody said oh you should cover this because it will make you really popular i'd look at the opposite yeah go and do it just to annoy people yeah yeah because we've that's the way we roll yeah yeah and you're with us yes so well didn't you and if you get this far yeah it's just kendall and um by this point probably um so thanks for staying with us and uh we'll see you next week oh thank you bye oh thank you bye bye driver