Alanis Morissette - Jagged Little Pill album artwork

This Episode · No. 5

RIFF036 - Alanis Morissette - Jagged Little Pill

03 February 2025 ·73 min ·Season 2025

0:00 1:12:35

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Show Notes

Pop Princess to Post-Grunge Powerhouse, and a Voice That Changed Everything

Hosts: Neil & Chris
Duration: ~73 minutes
Release: 3 February 2025

Episode Description

Neil confesses he's never listened to Jagged Little Pill end to end, despite knowing half the lyrics from pub osmosis in 1995. Chris discovers the album is essentially two people, Alanis and producer Glenn Ballard, creating what became one of the biggest albums ever. They explore how a 19-year-old former Canadian child star, dropped by her label for refusing another bubblegum pop record, crafted an autobiographical masterpiece that sold 33 million copies and won five Grammys.

The hosts dive into Alanis's transformation from Stock Aitken and Waterman-style pop to raw, confessional songwriting, her creative partnership with Glenn Ballard at Westlake Studios, and the record label executives who initially thought the album was "too caustic." This is the story of an artist finding her true voice, the power of authentic storytelling, and why some things are bigger than the sum of their parts.

What You'll Hear:

Neil's late discovery of the album and his realization that he somehow knows most of the words despite never owning it
Alanis's journey from child TV star to pop failure to post-grunge phenomenon, including her terrible 1991-92 albums
Glenn Ballard's nurturing production approach, writing and recording tracks in 20-45 minutes with one or two takes maximum
The creative process behind "You Oughta Know" (featuring Dave Navarro and Flea), "Hand In My Pocket," "Ironic," and "Perfect"
How the album didn't sell initially until MTV picked it up and launched it into the stratosphere
The storytelling craft that makes every listener find something relatable, regardless of age or gender

Featured Tracks & Analysis:

Chris and Neil examine Alanis's remarkable vocal technique, including her signature falsetto flick (a voice-preserving trick she mastered early), the conversational intimacy of her delivery, and her ability to lead listeners through simple chord progressions with just her top-line melody. They discuss how "Hand In My Pocket" works with minimal harmonic movement, how "Perfect" was written in 20 minutes as pure channeling, and why the album sounds like a full band despite Glenn Ballard playing nearly everything. The production sits perfectly on the edge of the mid-90s loudness wars, maintaining dynamics and delicate moments that would be lost in later compressed records.

Tangential Gold:

The podcast identity crisis, "yapology" memes, and whether Riffology is a better name than Monster Shop
Windows 95 launch with "Start Me Up" costing Bill Gates a million quid, and Neil queuing for the release
Nirvana's LA fires reunion with Joan Jett and Dave Grohl's daughter, plus internet cruelty toward artists
Neil's favourite album is actually Goo Goo Dolls' Superstar Car Wash, not thrash metal
Why you can't do Skunk Anansie or Vince Neil covers, the Kate Bushy test, and anticipation for RIFF037

Why This Matters:

Jagged Little Pill represents the perfect collision of artist authenticity and production craftsmanship. At 19, Alanis possessed a worldliness and wisdom that shouldn't have been possible, yet her storytelling resonates across generations precisely because it's honest, unfiltered autobiography. The album proves that technical perfection isn't necessary when you have exceptional songwriting, a producer who creates safe creative space, and a voice that communicates emotion with surgical precision. It's a masterclass in how simplicity, sincerity, and the right creative partnership can create something that transcends its era and continues to connect with millions.

Perfect for: Anyone who lived through the 90s and remembers exactly where they were when they first heard "You Oughta Know," musicians interested in how less can be more when the songwriting is strong, fans of confessional songwriting from Tori Amos to Liz Phair, and anyone curious about how a debut (well, third album but really a debut) can become one of the defining records of its decade without trying to be anything other than truthful.

Transcript

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Speaker0:00 monster shop or is it we're having an identity crisis aren't we today we are yeah i don't want to go into that but i'm no one knows what monster shop is no that's the problem no it's like monsters are rock is it monster this it's just i don't know yeah i don't and and it's bothered me because i've been working on the blog yeah and because of that i've had to go and do wordpress things and then i've had to go and do seo engine optimization and then it asks you for keywords and stuff when you type in monster shop and then it thinks you like amazon or whatever and i'm like we're not a shop we haven't got a shop we're not a shop we don't sell anything we do music and i need to buy any crap off us and then it kind of hit i got i got hit with this thing i was like with just the name of the podcast has got no relevance to what we do and that's bad apparently so i'm starting to think about that yes so over the next few weeks we may well i don't know we may change no idea what we'll do um but this week it is jagged little pill by alanis morissette whose name i can't spell i have realized is it the s's and the r's i can't get the s's and t's oh the t's the s's and there's too many s's and there's too many t's and i can't i mean it's quite it's two s's and two t's one r my tiny two r's one r one r one r one r two s two t's there we go i keep going two s two t's one r two s one r two s one r two s one r two s two t i should say i've made it a song you're not ever gonna forget that chris has had uh coke and chocolate um chocolate and coca-cola let's be clear yeah um variety this album alanis morissette jagged little pill released on june 13 1995 it's a special year 1995 yeah it's a b it was a big year for music most most years around then were i was gonna say it's melancholy yeah big year yeah it was a big year for that one and i can't believe we haven't we we've got to do that at some point haven't we we've got to do the melancholy um i've got another confession as well you got a confession yeah you're neil by the way yeah i'm neil this is chris we are the monster shop still maybe it's come something else we may not we'll see yeah i listened to some other podcasts this week yes they're all dead good on the sound i can't just talk about plugins for a moment yeah go on because i haven't spoken about plugins for a week a few weeks i've not changed anything you've not have you i'm normally i'm tweaking away i'm having a tweaked week i have to say we've got lovely thick black cables yep got the repair cafe yeah i've mended my microphone so i'm not going to touch it which is super duper yeah um and we're all good and the harrison plugins are just you love absolutely wow i'll tell you what i did learn this week yeah they're not very nice for cpu oh no they're hungry because they don't look very because normally what the pretty ones are the hungry ones yeah this one isn't particularly pretty yeah but it must be doing some absolute wizardry underneath just mathematics yes it's all mathematics and it's very good i like i like the sound so i like the sound i think we sound good yeah i like it yeah yeah very good um i what did i want to oh my confession i i've never listened to this album end to end no you said that earlier i was like what really just never ever listened to it it's an album that everyone of my age yeah particularly female yeah owned a copy of this record millennial yeah millennial girls yeah all are born what's millennials i don't know i'm i'm gen x right so that i i think gen x if you were born after 80 you're millennial okay is that right yeah that would make sense because that's why i am it might be it might be later than that yeah i shouldn't i'm after 80 but so everyone after 80 has this has a cop had a cd copy of this record somewhere maybe yeah yeah something i'm because i'm just gonna i'm just gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna when i'm gonna type on my ipad when when these things were were i i thought then when were millennials born yeah yeah between 1981 and 1996 okay right so that's you yes that is you and i'm gen x so i'm older than you yeah um my the girls in my generation had definitely had like absolutely definitely had this but this is i think this is a well 33 million people had it in there i think this was a um for me this was a like a slippery when wet or a new jersey like from for my lot right this because you were you were like but you just you couldn't move without hearing those albums and you knew all the lyrics this for me i would have been we were in the pubs and stuff yeah and this would have been playing in the background but it was so i knew the singles yeah yeah yeah but it wasn't something i would have been listening to like at home no and it's been i have to be honest it's been really good fun listening to this like without the hype and without all of yeah yeah yeah do you know to me without the without your mates judging you do you know what i mean oh you're listening to a girl's album which is what would have happened if i if you'd have if you're in your car you'd have had that yeah yeah if you've got your slayer tape yeah it's fine if you'd got i don't know well i'm trying to think how where where it would have got to before you'd have got abuse yeah yeah yeah do you know what i mean if you got like chesney hawks yeah abuse yeah and like so it's like but and then the jagged little pill would that wouldn't have gone down very well no unless you got a girl with you in which case you could say that was hers yeah that would have been fine yeah um but listening to it this week it's been really cool and do you know a record but you know what she's really good i think the the thing that hit me with this record is that there's not one thing that is like super special you know you know like when you listen to pink floyd yeah you've got like dave gilmore yeah and you've got some songwriting you've got you know and you think oh that's like it's just out of this world that's out of this world jagged little pill is like none of it like none of it like musically is like oh god it's the best thing ever yeah the storytelling yeah is phenomenal she's got this ability to tell a story and make you feel or connect with it yeah that i think is just outstanding i don't think i've ever come across another artist that's got the ability to tell stories like she does and you know and i think that some of the interviews where she talks about how this was you know kind of largely autobiographical and the record company hated it and yeah and all of that i mean she got dropped by that well she was a she was like a for one of a better term she was a bit of a britney wasn't a pop star yeah she came from like a tv background it was like what you'd call a like a disney thing now but obviously in canada it was whatever that was um i had saved up some money um from a show called you can't do that on television and obviously when you're that age you don't really have any expenses so it was just sort of sitting in my account and i knew that i wanted to put it into my music so i did and i had you know distributed on my own label so it began the only difference between the way i see it now and the way i saw it then even up until my into my teens was just that at that time music and theater it was all for the sake of entertainment whereas now the way i see it is that it's for the sake of communication for me more now stylistically the difference between the music that i did when i was younger to compare to now um is that a lot of the music that i wrote back then was for the sake of entertainment and it was much safer i don't think i was secure enough and and um fearless enough to be as unadulterated as i was on this record and the environment that i was writing in the creative environment wasn't conducive to me being as open um whereas now you know i write with glenn ballard and it's just very um it's very warm and open and non-judgmental so it's it's really you know very spiritual experience whereas before it wasn't quite the same and um it's just more about communication for me now and it's just a real pure way of doing it and i feel much more comfortable doing it this way i was younger it was also a different era musically and i i think at that time i didn't really know what it meant to be true to true to yourself musically you know and it wasn't until i did tap into this way of sort of stream of consciousness writing and um sort of that accelerated pace in which you just sort of like a frenzied way of writing that that i knew that you know it's in retrospect now that i realize how how i hadn't really tapped into my true true voice pardon the pun and i lived in toronto on my own for a couple years just to learn whatever it is you learn when you're on your own and i grew personally which i think sort of had quite a bit to do with with why the record is the way that it is and when i moved to los angeles i knew there was this sort of um intangible energy you know this potency in that city and while there was a lot of darkness and and sort of pretension i also knew that there was this this sort of core of the city that had a lot of ambition and and nobody really tries to stop you when you want to do something there's nobody raising any eyebrows really i like that so she was like a child star sort of and then and then had a couple of records that were very much bubblegum pop yeah really and and then and then this comes along which is like an indie old grunge masterpiece yeah she did two two records in 1991 she did an album called alanis and then now is the time in 92 and they were sugary yeah bubblegum pop music was awful yeah it was like but she was only 15 stock aching and water yes exactly style kind of yeah it was it was yeah it was extraordinary she was a kid she was like a like a sort of a mighty cyrus type thing there's a lovely bit in the inter i don't know whether you've got the clip in there there's a lovely bit in the interview where she opened for um oh what was his name um oh vanilla ice yeah and she was on support for vanilla ice when she was 14 yeah i didn't use that interview because there's a howard stern one oh and he talks too much and you can't hear what they're saying because he's talking it's very good but it's more him than you know um one of the one of the names that um i was thinking for the new show was riffology riffology and i shared it with my kids yeah and they both burst out laughing i said apparently there's a there's a meme going around like a gen alpha meme yeah called yapology right for people that talk too much i thought well how rude which i mean to be fair that's what a podcast isn't it a podcast is a platform you can talk too much yeah yeah and we do 90 minutes often yeah it was an hour and a half it was like over over that i did lindsey wrote in and said that's too long did she she said it'd be like last week was all right yeah and this week will be all right being long yeah but she said if it was judas priest she'd have to like poke her eyes out which is a bit rude judas priests are awesome do you know that out that out judas priests um uh uh living after midnight that i don't know for very much that's one of the songs that like properly hooked me into the that was like oh that's it i'm having that um i forgot where i got to do now oh yes um the thing yeah thing i wanted to talk about was is 91 and 92 she did those two awful albums avoid them uh very very bad um i made the mistake of going back to 91 for alonis and it's it's extraordinarily poor it's a very unpleasant record um and uh but but but the bit the bit that's really interesting to me is that she uh she just made this random not random choice but she made this decision to yeah yeah this is not who i am she had very much a thing but the thing that's i think that i find fascinating about it is i wonder if she knew how good she was at storytelling yeah because because there's a difference between uh like this kind of she was 19 yeah this this album yeah when she did this little pill this album which is one of the most incredible like contemporary songwriter albums you know i mean the songs and the stuff that came out the song craft is yeah like the the song craft is otherworldly you know there's like the wisdom that's within these songs from a as you say a storytelling perspective but also the compositional um perspective because they're not particularly like musically complicated but they're just like incredibly formed do you think that's glenn ballard this is it isn't it so so whenever whenever she's interviewed pretty much every interview um that i've listened to about this is she glenn comes up so she talks about glenn as if it was like it was a creative partnership yeah it wasn't just that he was like producing her record for her like he was with her creating these songs and creating this record and it was a very much like it felt it feels very much like it was a very nurturing process i'd written with almost 100 different people between the ages of 16 and my having that glenn at around 19 years old so i just knew i wasn't going to stop until i was working with someone or sitting across from someone who would allow me the space to be who i was and express exactly what was going on for me in real time and sitting with glenn that was the invitation he was basically saying who are you and let's you know both of us were saying let's have one plus one equal five and it really did start that way out of the gate with us well the one-dimensionalization of being singularly perceived as angry was almost comical because i don't know any human being that's singularly anything you know and then later on it was that i was singularly spiritual and then singularly philosophical so it there's a little bit of a violence to trying to have any human being be one thing and at the same time if there were to be one thing ascribed to me i'll take anger it's an empowering force and when it's destructive it's you know no one's having any fun but when i take it up on what it's offering which is just this empowerment and this movement out of depression or movement out of despondency anger is a gorgeous forest i'll take it a handful of people weren't happy because they they thought the record was too caustic quote unquote and um i quickly had to figure out what that word meant before i could respond and i just thought wow if you want a record from someone who's 39 years old and is mellowed out perhaps a little bit um don't sign a 19 year old who's been repressing a lot her whole teenage years and exploding you know and writing very kind of urgently and they knew what they were getting into when they met me so as a canadian i basically attempted to re-record two or three of them to assuage their concerns but ultimately everyone loved the original demos and the original take on it so we returned to what we started with thankfully i would tell my 19 year old 20 year old self um that it would be okay to have a couple of needs and to ask for help and lean on people i think there was this sort of survivalist soldier aspect that i'd adopted long before i wrote jagged little pill that i continued to adopt and um you know i i feel very proud about how i held myself at the time i remember my manager basically saying lannis god bless you just keep looking down keep looking at the train track right in front of you one step at a time because it was really overwhelming there's a lot of stimulation a lot of projection a lot of people hurling their unsolicited opinions at me so i stopped listening to people to be frank i just kind of shut down as i see a lot of celebrities do when they're in survival mode i think that there's a freedom and a liberation for artists which i very much like of this direct contact with people there's less of a bottleneck where we're beholden to appeasing or um um you know basically adhering to any requirements that are made of us where our our loyalty really is to our own expression and our own art and we work with people who really get that so there's less swimming upstream as an artist more freedom um and over time i just saw that that whole developmental mindset with record companies that they used to have in the 60s and 70s where they'd be with an artist for the long haul that went away pretty quickly um when especially with the digital era coming into play but there is a freedom now for people to try their hat at anything and to just go for it and throw the noodle up against the wall and see if it sticks so i do like that freedom so he saw he saw the essence of what she was and she understood that he saw that yeah so so because the other people she'd obviously been you know because she was like a child superstar she'd obviously been farmed across you know hundreds of writers going oh you should write with this guy this guy writes with blah blah blah and all this stuff and then glenn comes along and then all of a sudden there's this connection this is this is the sense that i get from here in the interviews and from what i understand of glenn ballard he doesn't get involved with records where he's just a knob twiddler yeah or you know he is like he is invested in that person as a creative entity and shapes their output and helps helps produce a record in in the kind of very emotional and it's the combination isn't it i think i think for me it's the combination of uh like glenn's like you say glenn's sensibility of how to produce a song and how to craft a song and then you've got alanis yeah but he feels like he really right because i i think that storytelling bit is that for me that's the bit that makes these and i know this but the production's really good on these but it's it's 95 you it is just on that verge i think of of uh where compression was getting too much because um uh oasis yeah uh um that that um oasis record so what's the story morning glory is always the one that's credited as like that's the beginning of the loudness wars yeah um and that's the same year yeah this isn't no i don't think this isn't this isn't compressed to the same because like like well when you talk about melancholy as well the original not necessarily the new ones because a lot of them have been remastered and that kind of thing but back then you had to turn the thing up yeah yeah it was it was deliberately mastered quieter so you turned it up to get the sound to get the diamond yeah and i think that so like morning glory to where it sounds really dead to me that yeah it's got really dead i mean they've remastered it since and it sounds a lot less crappy but that the original kind of thing yeah it's got no dynamics to it i think it's being it's compressed yeah and it sounds loud yeah but everything is no kind of up and down and especially because like morning glory is quite an interesting record from a songwriter there's a lot of dynamics to it and you you kind of go but you do with this yeah there's so many there's so many delicate moments that would be ruined by loudness in this record do you know the other thing that also hits me with this and i don't know whether and you'll tell me that i'm imagining this probably but it sounds like a lot of the vocals sound really tightly mic'd you can hear hugely you can hear lots of really tight yeah but you can hear the voice can't you you can hear breath and stuff like that but then whenever you see her sing whenever you see like videos of alana singing these songs she's like eight feet from the mic but you can still hear it she's got a big voice and it's like just yeah this for not i think it's incredible so because it sounds like um it sounds like the mic is kind of in in her face yeah because you you like you say it's really intimate sound it feels like you know um because the vocals quite forward um yeah but it's still quite delicate in places all right i'm gonna make a statement yeah i think i think she is one of the greatest vocalists on the planet oh wow that's a big one yeah yeah that's a big one yeah i think she is i think she's i think she's you know you get these singers that do all the gymnastics and they do yeah clever yeah yeah yeah she just knows how to communicate with her voice and and and she does she she the way she accentuates the little ornament she puts on it she has this thing where she flicks into a falsetto yeah i've properly copied that yeah so if you ever hear honestly if you ever hear me sing yeah like listen listen to landis morissette and go oh that's how you started because i'm trying to the little it sounds like a like a little yodely yeah yeah yeah yeah that's amazing it's a real affectation but it's really unique to her yeah yeah you can hear um dolores from the cranberries oh yeah i don't yeah she does actually just flicks into this moment kind of yeah yeah yeah she does it's got a name i think it's supposed to be a thing that actually preserves your voice oh right if you if you if you if you take taper things off with this particular kind of flick it does it does something quite uh it's quite nice for you maybe maybe vince neil should have done more of that over the years um someone said that one said oh you do that thing where it's like the voice protects the thing that you do i was like no i don't know what are you trying to be alonis morissette yeah yeah i was just trying to copy i run that was when we go into your bedroom was that yeah and you've got a big alonis posters there was a precedent setting time to writing especially the song perfect on jagged little pill it was written in 20 minutes the music and lyrics were written at the same time it was as though it was channeled it was really a fast process so the living of the life that i'm commenting on obviously takes decades but the actual visceral moment of expression takes anywhere from 20 to 45 minutes some 50 of the time i'll come in with an idea and flesh it out and then the other 50 of the time i have no idea what i'll write about and i let the music dictate it sometimes it's never quite enough if you're flawless then you're in my love don't forget to win first place don't forget to keep that smile on your face be a good boy try a little harder you've got to measure up make me out how long before you screw it up how many times do i have to tell you i have to tell you to hurry up with everything i do for you the least you can do is keep close be a good girl you've got to try you've got to try a little you've got to try a little you've got to try a little Make us proud. I'll live for you, I'll make you what I never was. If you're the best, maybe so am I. Compared to him, compared to her, I'm doing this for you alone damn good. You'll make up for what I've learned, what's the problem? Why are you crying? Be a good boy Push a little further now That wasn't fast enough To make us happy We'll love you Just the way you are If you're perfect So I would listen to the female gorgeous singers like Etta James and Aretha Franklin and Whitney Houston and I thought if I could sing along with them and hit every note they could hit that I'm legit I honestly think she's amazing there's there's there's a footage of around It might be a bit later It might be 99 but it's one of these big festivals Yeah And she's she's a dynamo She's like I The energy that she has on that stage On that stage And just the vibe that she gives off and the vibe of the band and everything like that You just think what an energy she must have been to be around at that time She doesn't care She's I think this like force of nature now I think I think going through that that process of like 91 92 and and she would have been really objectified and she's done that Yeah And then and then jagged little pill was her just writing her stuff I kind of feel that she after that that she and she talks about this are kind of just like not not really engaging with and shutting down Yeah, yeah, yeah She knows what she wants But what you see now I think she's been through that and come out and just got I don't care I just don't care anymore The thing about her though for me is that I she's one of the few artists I tell you there's two artists actually that I like this for me But she's one of the few artists that I much prefer live in that acoustic set, you know what there's just kind of, you know, just some acoustic guitars and her and you can really hear her voice and you can hear us and you can hear that like almost playing with the words Yeah, yeah, yeah And I think she's phenomenal. She's brilliant live. Yeah, she's brilliant. She's absolutely brilliant in the acoustic set. The other one is Taylor Momsen that does that. Yeah, she's she's got this thing She's got this thing where I swear in the studio must be the child star thing But in the studio they I would say they've ruined Taylor's voice, but they don't it's it sounds and I've seen the pretty reckless live a couple of times and Her voice live is is so much better than it is on the record. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I do wonder why I tried to cage it a bit or something. Yeah, I don't know what they're doing to but but the same with Alanis for me in that the album I mean you can hear the dynamics of a voice on on jagged little pill Yeah, yeah But it's really different to a lot of the acoustic stuff that they did you know when they were doing the tour of the album and you know all of the chat shows and stuff The band would quite often do acoustic versions of the tracks. I don't know For me you can hear her voice. Yeah, so much better on those than you can on the record. Yeah. Yeah I think one thing that she's one thing that she she has got she has got the real power to work to write a top line You know like something like could so like like hand in my pocket for example just as an example From a A kind of structure and a chord sequence perspective as a song. Yeah, it's hugely simple. Yeah, it's very very simple It mainly drones on a G throughout and then I think it's a G. I'm assuming it's a G. So It's it probably is if you're saying it's a G probably probably energy, but yeah If it's not in G the cause I'm about to say the equivalent relationships to a G but you had the idea and then he goes sort of Like for the chorus like an F a G a C energy again and and that's pretty much the whole song You know, oh, yeah, yeah, it flicks into a D to the section off, you know, but but and then he loops that all the way through Yeah, but and the dynamics don't change too much in that song either. So where where is the interest coming from? Because that's all Songcraft is good. Yeah, what you're doing is you're taking the listener on a journey And there's a number of ways in which you do that you either do it through the through the structure of your song and your core sequences And the way you guide them or you do it by telling a story through dynamics or a combination of both She manages to do it with just the top line So throughout the whole song you are led pretty much through the whole album You'll you are led by her her top line singing Wow So that that lead vocal line Yeah, and I think this is your storytelling bit yeah guides you through the whole record. It doesn't stop Glenn and I were sitting in the studio one day and We were not coming up with something right away. So we were being hard on ourselves as usual and I just sat down and wrote out exactly how I felt and at the time I just had no money and I was borrowing money from my manager Scott and You know living in hotel rooms and people's couches and us you know It was probably the most difficult time throughout this whole process has not necessarily been adjusting to this success of the record But was during the making of the record so sitting there on the couch I wrote exactly how I felt and they wound up being the lyrics and Glenn and I wrote them all together so I'm broke but I'm happy I'm poor but I'm kind I'm short but I'm healthy Yeah I'm high but I'm grounded I'm sane but I'm overwhelmed I'm lost but I'm hopeful I'm hopeful, baby And what it all comes down to Is that everything's gonna be fine, fine, fine Cause I've got one hand in my pocket And the other one is giving a high five I feel drunk but I'm sober I'm young and I'm underpaid I'm tired but I'm working Yeah I care but I'm restless I'm here but I'm really gone I'm wrong and I'm sorry, baby And what it all comes down to Is that everything's gonna be quite alright Cause I've got one hand in my pocket And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette I'm free but I'm focused I'm green but I'm wise I'm hard but I'm friendly, baby I'm sad but I'm laughing I'm brave but I'm chicken shit I'm sick but I'm pretty, baby And what it all boils down to? Is that no one is spicking a cigarette Is that no one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette And the other one is spicking a cigarette I read a fantastic review I read some really interesting reviews About Alanis Morissette Some like back when this Jagged Little Bill came out I think everyone was pretty positive It was the ones after You know when everyone's feeling a little bit Oh it's not as good I prefer the first one Yeah yeah yeah But they weren't the ones that hit me The one that really hit me was There was this brilliant review And it was saying that She has this ability To like touch everybody You know there is a lyric There is a part of Jagged Little Pill That anyone can relate to That everybody resonates with Whether it's a breakup Or whether it's feeling happy Whether it's you know Whatever that happens to be There is a bit in this record You know for everybody And that's what they were attributing That you know It's her voice You know I think Glenn's Like structure The song structuring skills And the production It all is kind of All comes together Yeah But then the lyrics And that connection to people Do you know you've just got Like every Like no one bit Is enough to carry the whole thing But the combination of all of it Is like bigger It's bigger than the sum of its parts Yeah yeah yeah That's what I'm trying to say It's kind of You know it's not just about A 19 year old angry at the world It's not just that About someone who can sing It's not just about a dude Who's able to structure songs The combination of all the bits Is Just makes it like Like super special I think This record And I've really enjoyed it this week Like I say It's an album that I have not I think underappreciated Yeah Up to this week And I've Yeah I've really Really enjoyed it And bizarrely You know like Half of the album's lyrics And without having Do you know what I mean Without Without listening Just from being in pubs In 95 probably I suspect But It's extraordinary The other thing About this record You know We talked about her Shift in identity Yeah So this change You know From like This objectified pop Princess individual Type character To this Very very Almost like Wise beyond her years Very considered Yeah yeah Eloquent Yeah Complicated When she played God In dogma Yeah yeah I know I only have one perception Of this world And it's my own So You know I am who I am And I know that it's Odd sometimes And people Sort of raise their eyebrows And they don't understand Where I'm coming from And they actually question it And it's a little frustrating Sometimes but It's what I know And it's who I am And I've been surrounded By adults I guess from a very young age And everyone has A particular spirit That they're instilled With when they're born And mine I guess was very Very hungry for knowledge And has this sort of Insatiable appetite For growing So I don't know There's still that Bit of me that goes Jagged little pill 19 years old It doesn't make any sense To me No She hasn't seen Too much of the world Perhaps Yeah yeah She seems to have There's a world There's a worldliness About the writing On the album But the thing about it Is as well Is that There was a transition To almost having like The band sound So I think There was I think a lot Of the drums Are loops And like Beats and electronic And samples maybe I'm not sure There probably is You know There probably was A session drummer Around or whatever But The band It's got a very Band sound So you've got The guitars on there You've got the kind Of keyboards and organs There's the odd Little bit of synth But it's mainly Guitar driven Yeah So it gives I think it gives A more authentic Perception As a record And how the songs Sit It definitely adds To the production As well You know That I think It sounds It sounds Slicker Yes Than if They'd had a drummer That's probably Going to offend All the drummers But the drummer Came later And of course That drummer Was Taylor Hawkins Yeah So like So I think I don't know Whether Taylor Was around For the album I don't think He played on this I think it's got Dave Navarro on it Yeah so Dave Navarro And Flea Played on You ought to know Yeah So you know They did that And I think Like Glenn Ballard I suppose he played Loads of stuff on it Glenn Ballard Credited for Drumming Programming Okay so he did that Yeah so I don't think I mean they would have Had a drummer For the live show They wouldn't have Had like you know ZX Spectrum In the back But yeah And that's probably Where Taylor came in Wasn't it For that first live tour Well I think There was a thing About you know Him doing Him doing the Alanis thing Yeah And then I think You know Dave Dave Grohl going like Do you want to come And do this thing With me Yeah And I think Because Dave Dave Grohl did The similar thing With the Foo Fighters Record where it was Kind of him Playing and doing Everything Yeah And then suddenly It needed to go On the road And he needed A band to do it Well then both Albums came out In the same year Ah there we go So Foo Fighters Came out in the same In the same year Yeah Definitely a choice Of like Taylor going I'm sorry I've got to Go and do this This thing with Dave Grohl You know There was a very You know there was A kind of thing Did you see This week It's probably We're going to go off Piste a little bit That's not like us No it's not You know the LA Fire Thing they did Oh yeah yeah yeah But Nirvana Yes Got back together Yeah For Who was it Which sang I'm trying to think Joan Jett sang Yeah And Dave Grohl's daughter Dave Grohl Dave Grohl's daughter Yeah Do you know the thing That really hit me About that Is just how Rude and cruel People were In the comments Ah Yeah yeah yeah If that was you You're a dickhead Yeah Just Honestly I just thought It was Same for Linkin Park When they did it With Emily And you just think What You know you've got Such a legacy And it's a nice Thing to do And they're doing it For the you know For the show And you know It wasn't like Oh you know We're going to get Back together And sell a bunch Of albums It was just like Yeah let's go And do it I think quite clearly Dave isn't that keen To come and do Foo Fighters This stuff You know Because of Taylor I'm assuming At the minute So well Yeah Nirvana Is you know It's been a long time So maybe People will be alright And they weren't No They were just going Oh no one can sing It's awful Tone deaf Terrible You know It's just like Get over yourselves But I Yeah I thought That was I thought that was Pretty cool If I'm honest To do that Yeah I haven't even heard it And I should really Because I used to love Nirvana But it's alright It's quite It's quite It's quite good I think it's quite Good fun And imagine Poor Dave's daughter She's just Made me quite Quite grumpy If I'm honest I think there's The lack of empathy Isn't it Yeah it is You don't have to like it You know It's not like No one's saying to you Oh you can't go And listen to Nevermind anymore It's just They're just Playing some music They're just Playing some music Honestly Can you imagine The people That are that grumpy That have got to go And smash the keyboard Because I think The band came After the album With the Jagged Little Pill tour And that kind of thing Yeah yeah yeah Definitely But I think that It was very You know They got the right people together And there was What I'm trying to say Is it wasn't It wasn't a singer With a backing band Like the Alanis thing Was a band We've been together For about four or five months I auditioned About 50 people And Obviously I was basing it On their musicianship And how well they could play But also on their spirit And their attitude And I wound up Really lucking out With these guys Because each one of them I mean they couldn't be More different from each other If they tried But together we have This amazing synergy And love really And I'd like to think I'll be with them for a while But it didn't Sell initially What Jagged Little Pill didn't Yeah It didn't launch itself Because no one knew Who she was Yeah So this is a debut Essentially Yeah of course Right And it was only If I'm going to look at my sheet I'm looking at my sheet I think it was You Ought to Know It's one of the big singles Ironical something Yeah One of those singles Got looped up And got absolutely You know Grabbed an MTV Right And all of that stuff And yeah Just absolutely Do you know another band That did that Was Alice in Chains Right Okay Alice in Chains Alice in Chains Didn't go anywhere And then it got picked up Alice in Chains Was the movie I would say singles Something like that The song was in there Yeah the song was in the movie And that just launched them into Wow The stratosphere Same with this Came out Didn't do much And then The whole MTV thing And then it went Then it went nuts From there Once it caught It went mental Just absolutely Off the Off the charts 33 million copies Worldwide Which is Proper mad Isn't it It's just Absolute I mean we talk about These iconic albums But this is I mean it's Yeah It's up there We're the biggest albums Ever Yeah On the planet Ever I do like As well with these That Obviously I like Vinyl I like The whole I'm quite obsessed With vinyl at the moment What I like about it Is it sold 33 million copies Yeah The first pressings This is in 95 I don't think This was pressed on Vinyl No I think it was CD Wasn't it CD and tape Yeah No one was No one had Record players Yeah it wasn't a thing Yeah So you You kind of had that So the original Your dad had records Yeah Or your mum Your mum had a record They weren't listening To Alanis No Were they Yeah yeah They were listening To Mike Oldfield That's true Yeah That's exactly what it was Meatloaf From Mike Oldfield I like meatloaf I like meatloaf Meat We should do We should do Meat I want that interview I want that Children If we do meatloaf We've got to use That children's interview Where he forces The presenter to call him Mr Meat For the duration It's one of my favourite Interviews of all time The thing is What we won't see On the podcast Is he's grinning All the way through He's just He's having such a good time Just He's making her feel She's feeling naughty She's feeling really She's feeling really kind of She's all kind of Hi there Hi Should I call you Mr Meat Should I call you Meat or Loaf And he said You can call me Mr Meat And then Oh dear Yeah Made me giggle A lot What did I want to Doesn't it Yeah We'll get into that But isn't his daughter Married to Scott Ian From Anthrax Whose daughter Meat I don't know I think Meat's daughter Is married to Scott Ian Is married to Scott Ian Yeah Yeah I have no idea I don't know why My brain's gone there If that's not true That's a dream Yeah That I have I'm a bit like that If I'm honest Shall I do some minor facts Yes Go for it Let me go up I'm going to have a look I'm going to scroll Right to the top Of my fact list Released 13th June 1995 It's genre tagged From the record label As post grunge Is that because It's got It's got a synth on it Yeah I think it's because It's got It's got keyboards on it It's got keyboards on it Runtime 57 minutes 23 seconds Proper album length You don't like them that long Do you It's too long It's on the verge Yeah 57 minutes is alright That's on the verge An hour is too long Yeah 57 minutes is alright The problem Once they go over an hour I've forgotten What I was started listening to I'm like Is this the same album Has like Apple Music Gone on to another album Now You might confuse My thing with this one With that runtime stuff Is like You know Looking down the track list And you go Oh I like that one Oh I like that one Oh I like that Oh that's a good one as well You know what I mean I don't think There weren't There weren't many singles Off this record There were probably like The normal amount of singles Like maybe three At the time Or four Yeah four But there are At least I want to say There are at least Double that That could have been Yeah that could have been Yeah I think you're right Record label Maverick And Reprise She was Dropped From Yes Her Canadian The Canadian company Because they Wanted another pop album Yeah Which So she went from Canada to LA Yep And then went shopping When she'd got the album done Yeah exactly And really shopped it But the bit that's Fascinating about that Is she was That was essentially A debut at that point She was She was doing A new Totally new record But the fact that The record company In Canada Dropped her Because she was going To do an autobiographical Record And not another Stock Aitken and Waterman I bet they I bet they regretted that one 33 million sales later Oh god yes Somebody is having a bad day Imagine end of year review So Bob It's not my bloody fault It was recorded Westlake Recording Studios In Los Angeles Essentially that's Glenn Ballard's That's Glenn Ballard's Yeah it's his bedroom Basically A producer was Glenn Ballard Who we've already spoken about Gets his sleeves rolled up Bit like Mutt Lang And Bob Rock Yeah It's like they're in the band For a bit isn't it Yeah yeah exactly Which is fantastic It won five Grammy Awards Album of the Year And sold 33 million copies Worldwide Yeah So pretty much everybody Like you know Somebody who's got a copy Of this somewhere Yeah yeah Which I think is really cool I always like the cover Of this It's an album That I liked the cover art It's not Bluey Yes not obvious Is it It's kind of No But it's also got that Like it kind of looks like She's looking in a mirror Almost It's this It's this kind of It is reflective Introspection sort of thing I liked that Yeah yeah yeah Yeah I thought that was That was excellent She did We've already talked about She did two albums Before this one This was her third record She did Alonis in 91 And now is the time in 92 Which is terrible Don't bother with them They are on streaming But don't listen to them And then Yeah then we had Jagged Little Pill Yeah The cover art was by Thomas Rechion Oh Rechion I'm not sure how you Pronounce that Financial backing is credited As coming from Maverick Records But I think She self-funded Yeah I think she did that herself I think probably the PR and stuff that came later Would have been Yeah yeah She definitely self-funded Yeah Alonis Morissette herself Played the harmonica Yeah Glenn Ballard played everything else But it's so funny Because it sounds bandy That's the thing about Yeah yeah yeah I mean that's Glenn Ballard Ballard being dead good isn't it Well it's just Yeah But it sounds like a band's playing it You know and obviously They got people in doing Bits and Bobs for different songs But he's a master really Really good Dave Navarro and Fleet Play on You Ought to Know Which is I did not know that I think that's really interesting There is a guy that hears You Ought to Know I'm not sure whether he knows It's about him I mean I My nature is not very angry And that song was very Very subconscious for me It was An opportunity for me To actually listen to those Dysfunctional voices In the back of my head And come to terms with them Because I had repressed How I felt about the situation For so long So I think The only I think people are misconstruing Why I wrote the song And I didn't write it For the sake of revenge I wrote it for the sake of release I want you to know I want you to know That I'm happy for you I wish nothing but the best for you both I know the version of me Is she perverted like me? Would she go down on you in a theater? Does she speak eloquently? And would she have your baby? I'm sure she'd make a really excellent mother Cause the love that you gave Every babe was able to make it To make it enough for you To live open wide I know And every time you see the man You know how you told me You know how you told me Till you died Till you died But you're still alive And I'm here To remind you Of the mess you left When you went away It's not fair To deny me Of the cross I bear That you gave me You, you, you Ought to know You seem very well Things look peaceful I'm not quite as well I thought You should know Did you forget about me Mr. Duplicity I hate to fuck you In the middle of dinner There was a slap in the face How quickly I was replaced And are you thinking of me When you fuck her? Cause the love that you gave That you made Was a name But I didn't get enough For you to be open wide Remembering time you see the man But you know how you told me You told me Until you died Until you died But you're still alive And I'm here To remind you Of the mess you left When you went away It's not fair To deny me Of the cross I bear That you gave to me You, you, you Ought to know I'm here to be a man's life I'm here to be a man's life I'm here to be a man's life I'm here to be a man's life I'm here to be a man's life I'm here to be a man's life I'm here to be a man's life I'm here to be a man's life I'm here to be a man's life I'm here to be a man's life I'm here to be a man's life I'm here to be a man's life I'm here to be a man's life I'm here to be a man's life I'm here to be a man's life I'm here to be a man's life I'm here to be a man's life I'm here to be a man's life I'm here to be a man's life I'm here to be a man's life Cause the joke that you made And the bet that was paid And I'm not gonna pay it As soon as you close your eyes And you know it Every time I stretch my nails And someone else is back I hope you feel it How can you feel it? Well I'm here to remind you Of a mess you left When you went away It's not fair To deny me On a cross I bear That you gave to me You, you, you I'm here to remind you Of a mess you left When you went away It's not fair To deny me On a cross I bear When I check it to me You, you, you We shot that in the Mojave Desert For three days In Death Valley And we just wanted to focus on Not necessarily the literal take Of what the lyrics are saying I think that probably would have been overkill We wanted to focus on The sort of isolation That I felt afterwards And the coming to terms with it really And that's how we did it Recorded in 94 Obviously released in 95 They were trying to write and record One song per day During the recording process So they were not Dicking about They were literally Going in Some days with A tune Some days without And they would try and Throw it together Imagine that though Imagine Imagine You've been to work for a day Yeah And you know Hand in my pockets Yeah Comes out of it It's alright It's alright for today Good nice day's work I love Alana's talking about Some of these songs being channeled Where she's Yes Yeah She's like There was no No choice No straining Coming through Yeah And she said sometimes I had the lyrics already Sometimes the lyrics would come to the music But I think that's kind of that Relationship she had with Glenn It seems You know I think super cool Yeah She talks about Ironic being recorded in 15 minutes Which is Pretty excellent Yeah You think about it Yeah I think anyway It was It debuted At number one On the Billboard 200 Which is Like For a debut That's You know It's pretty Pretty bonkers I think Albums afterwards Supposed former Infatuation junkie Came in 98 Sold 7 million Under rug swept Sold 2 million Yeah She did an MTV Unplugged Which is my favourite That's the one that I think is That's my favourite That was 99 That was 1.7 million And then there was Jagged Little Pill Acoustic In 2005 Which only sold 400,000 copies But I think that's because People had stopped Buying things So that's the Streamy time I don't think it's Streamy time I think that's Napster Everyone downloaded it Off the internet Yeah And then Didn't pay for it Yeah The beginning of that one So Lars Ulrich Will come in If you did that Back then You're on Lars's list Eventually He'll get to you Like 3 in the morning You'll have this Rattling on the door Angry Lars You downloaded In 1993 Anyway Yeah No he won't do that Probably Albums released the same year Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness Which is Chris's favourite album ever Yeah I was thinking what mine is As much as I love Thrash And all of the things And really heavy stuff I think the album that I've listened to The most ever Is Superstar Car Wash Wow That's really interesting Z-Goo-Goo Dolls Yeah I do That's one I go to You had that in the car on the way I did yeah That's one I go to When life is complicated Yeah I like that album It's lovely It's one of my absolute favourites It centres you It does There's just something about that record I just absolutely love it I'm still trying to find a vinyl version I've got a vinyl version of it But it's in a box set That's sealed And it's super rare And only a few copies were made of it And I'm too scared to open it In case it's worth millions in the future The Pandora's box Yeah so I'm trying to find another copy of it But they were only pressed in the US And I can't find a copy of it And I'm really sad about it If you have a copy Of The Goo Goo Dolls Superstar Car Wash I would love to hear Love to hear from you Other things What's the Story Morning Glory Was also released that year That's credited as starting the The Loudness Wars The Loudness Wars Where things were getting louder and louder And more compression So they sounded better on the radio And then Foo Fighters Also released their debut Which is again It's interesting Right Let me go back down Through my list Oh singles Were You Ought To Know Where's my list You Ought To Know Hand In My Pocket You Learn Head Over Feet And Ironic Quite a few singles According to my list Quite a lot For an album in 95 It was autobiographical So lots of the songs Are written about things That she was going through At the time That relatable storytelling I think is what makes it That's the hook That's what makes it Absolutely super special She did lots of touring And interesting stuff Out from that record Where you know Lots of these iconic albums We talk about The band goes off And you know We talked about Led Zeppelin Who kind of famously Didn't talk to anybody They just went off And did a massive tour Big stadiums And off they went Alanis was on like Saturday Night Live And did all these interviews And she was She's so good With like For Led Zeppelin A terrible In front of Your news And You know On like talk shows And stuff Alanis is just So eloquent It doesn't matter What stupid nonsense She gets asked She's able to Turn it into Something that's like You know Like sage You know what I mean That's what I mean About the wisdom thing She's always had that Kind of like Yeah I think she's Absolutely phenomenal But she did do A massive tour as well So she did that Did all this kind of You know TV stuff Then she did A hundred shows Off the back In that That That 12 months Show The 12 months After it came out Which I think Is just extraordinary Bands And people She quotes As Influences There's the two big ones Tori Amos Yeah And Liz Phair Wow Yeah Both great Yeah Now Liz Phair Is phenomenal I think she's A great songwriter As well She's a phenomenal I think Incredibly underrated Yeah That's the thing That's the interesting Thing with Tori Amos As well So like Little Earthquakes Yeah Which I think Is just a staggering Album From a songwriting Perspective Probably Similar In like Energy Yeah Similar in Kind of persona A little bit Yeah She was maybe A bit more Kind of Kate Bushy I suppose But Kate Bushy You're going to have To describe Your What is that Well I get the I bet Kate Bush Has Kate Bush Used this noun Before To Kate Bush Something I think it's Who Who Who could you sit And just have a nice chat With your mainstream friends Yeah And also your weird friends Yeah I think Alanis could do both Yeah I think Tori And Kate Yeah Probably just the weird friends Yeah Yeah You know what I mean That's what I think anyway Yeah I don't know Bliss Fair was a bit edgy as well Was she Yeah She's a bit edgy Definitely Artists influenced by Jagged Little Pill So artists that claim That they Took stuff from Alanis In their careers Pink Yeah Okay Avril Lavigne Yeah Undoubtedly Yeah Kelly Clarkson Yeah I think I think Avril Lavigne With You know you talked about The way The way that Alanis pronounces her words I know they're both Canadian So there might be something In that as well But The way that she Accentuates the words Yeah Is very similar Yeah She does Doesn't she Yeah I like I know Avril Lavigne's a bit like Nickelback And it's not cool You know it's not cool Is it Good songs But I just think They're both brilliant songwriters I think Avril Lavigne is Again she's underrated I think she's fantastic Movies that got released In this year 95 Top Gun I say that every time Because one time I wouldn't get it right Toy Story Was the big one Toy Story Do you know something else That was released And I remember I was a part of this You were part of the film No Something else got released In Oh I see Windows 95 Windows 95 Was released in 1995 Yeah And we had Was that the one That was released With Microsoft Then Carter Yeah we had It was the one Where we paid A million quid For Start me up From The Rolling Stones So the story goes The story when I joined Was that Bill Gates Went to Mick Jagger And said I want to use You want to use your song Yeah Can I use it And he went Get lost Yeah Nerd Oh yeah I'm busy being a rock star Get out of my way That's how I imagine It makes it And then And then The rumour is That Bill Gates Went I'll give you A million quid And he went Oh okay You can do it So then Then he was allowed To use it And that's where It came from It cost a million quid To be able to have Start me up Yeah Because it was When we had The start menu For the first time There we go Prior to that You didn't have A start menu Ah And people queued Around the block To get Windows 95 There we go Saddos Right Five things It won five Grammy Awards 33 million copies sold All the songs With only one or two takes No more It's got Dave Navarro And Flea on it Unbelievable It inspired A Broadway musical Do you know that Of the same name Yeah There was one of the interviews That spoke about that I didn't use any of it But yeah I didn't know that It's been used in Glee Yeah Not a big fan of Glee I've not watched it But they They played some songs There is a Steve Coogan And Rob Brydon Show Called The Trip to Italy And they They sing In the car To it Which I think Is absolutely excellent South Park Parodied it Yeah They thought it was very funny They did not like Alanis Morissette They didn't like A lot of bands actually No They didn't like Winger either Which I think Is really interesting Or Canada Let's blame Canada Good God Yeah We're really sorry about it Canada's having a tough time At the minute aren't they Yeah definitely I mean yeah It's not our fault I don't know why I'm saying sorry It's not my fault But I feel I feel like I feel like I should apologise The reviews of the album Everyone loved it Jagged Little Pill Yeah yeah yeah And just everybody I think Everyone liked it There was a hit There was a song on there For everyone Yeah Millennium Millennial girls Loved all of it Yeah yeah yeah And had tattoos of it And all of that thing And they all think Alanis Morissette is their mum Something like that anyway John Bovee It's His My Life That's the other one isn't it God can you imagine those two Doing like a duet or something Yeah That'd be great That'd be brilliant I'd like that I'm surprised that's never happened Yeah I don't know why Maybe if they're both listening Yeah We could get them together I don't know Matchmakers Musical matchmakers There we go And that is it That's all the facts That I have For Jagged Little Pill By Alanis Morissette The fact It's my first time Listening to it this week Yeah End to end Yeah And I found That I knew I would say I knew Like 70% of the words To half of the songs And I would have said I've never listened to that I've never owned a copy of it And I've never listened to it Like this week was the first time I think that I listened to it on Monday And that would have been the first time I listened to it end to end And I reckon I knew like A lot of the words To about half of the songs Yeah Isn't it mad? Yeah yeah My thing is that I'm actually going to Listen to it again With those fresh ears Knowing that it was Kind of pretty much Done by two people Yeah That's the one for me Because I've always Positioned it in my mind Yeah Is that it's a full band Playing on it On all the songs And it's not It's kind of from the mind It's from that creative Mind and energy Of two people Isn't it? Yeah So I'm going to go I'm going to go in again And listen to that Because I think that's important I think you might be right What should we do Now I think we're done now For this one Play a song And then we'll talk About the next one Jagged Little Pill Is a lyric in You Learn And a lot of A lot of the premises That I write about On this record Have to do with Certain parts of my past And a lot of times When I'm immersed In something really difficult I don't realise that There's a lesson In there somewhere And that it's only In retrospect That I'll realise Why I went through it So the lyric following it Is just swallow it down It feels so good Swimming in your stomach So that there's Some sort of a payoff And it may not be right away I recommend getting your heart Trapped up to anyone Yeah I recommend walking around Niggas in your living room Swallow it down What a jagged little pill It feels so good Swimming in your stomach Wait until the dust settles You live You learn You learn You love You learn You cry You learn You lose You learn You bleed You learn You scream You learn You learn I recommend biting off more than you can chew to anyone I I I Recommend biting off more than you can chew to anyone I I Certainly Do I Recommend sticking your foot in your mouth at any time Feel free Feel free Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down Pull it down When you see You wait You learn, you lose, you learn You bleed, you learn, you scream, you learn Wear it out, the way you're free and loved with you They held it down, the firetrucks are coming up around the bend you live you learn you love you learn you cry you learn you lose you learn you bleed you learn you scream you learn you grieve you learn you choke you learn you laugh you laugh you chose you learn you pray you learn you ask you learn you laugh you learn we were essentially done the record and we were talking to a whole bunch of different companies at the time and uh i wasn't really connecting with anybody so i was sort of putting that whole process off a little bit and um and then i was writing the studio one day and my lawyer's partner called and said that people at maverick wanted to meet us and i went down and met with guy o siri for all of maybe 15 minutes and played them we played perfect and you ought to know and then left the office and then within them within the next month i was signing with them we've uh we've quite a reasonable length today 68 minutes so far oh my god sorry it felt like a short one it felt like shorter sorry i've edited everything in this it's long again it is it'll be all right because lindsey lindsey i bet lindsey lives it'll be fine then won't it she'll definitely like the next one yeah we've chosen but what we did we went down the list of all the things we said it for the past three weeks there's a list of things that you've said yeah and we landed on something totally different didn't we well i tell you what we've taken to doing so we just go through the blog so the blog's really cool the blog has got um to monstershoprock.com and the blog has got tags in there for year and artist and genre and all the bits and pieces so we just start hammering in like year and things like that until we find something that we think yeah that'll that feeds on quite nicely but this jagged little pill was 95 yeah and we were thinking we'll probably stay in the same like zone area of years of year zone so we looked at tons of stuff that was released in 95 and 96 and we think we're gonna go with skunker nancy's stoosh what what record but similar to this but english yeah but it had loads of tunes on it it was yeah tunes like four four absolute bangers it's what i love about this album it makes you want to play you know you said about if i just picked i just did christians play one of the riffs chris just people listen to this and it's like playing playing playing the guitar it's a 12 string yeah yeah it's been out of tune so every guitar in here is out of tune but but but the thing that hit me with this is that they did it they produced this album that was huge it was used in movies it was used everywhere stoosh was phenomenal and then um i remember hearing an interview with skin i don't know like a couple of years after this like this tour cycle and you know a release cycle saying that they wished it had been less successful and that the success just just was too big you couldn't follow it there's no yeah the pressure and everything surrounding it was too much and and and it was almost just this it led to this eventual just no no more we're not doing this anymore you know we're just stopping yeah um and i it was i i it was one of these interviews where i think at the time that i heard it i was just like what's wrong it's mad i mean be the biggest band on the planet kind of thing why would you not want that yeah yeah yeah like now i guess with a little bit more wisdom thinking back you know totally get where they were coming from with this just um you know that's not who we wanted to be you know we made this music we wanted to make it a bit like led zeppelin we wanted to make this music and we loved it and we love performing this stuff to to people that like the same music that we did but we didn't want to be in like doing interviews and i don't want to be justifying lyrics to people and i don't want to be explaining what this you know that's not what it was about and it was it really it stayed i mean i probably that would have been i don't know 98 99 it would have been quite late um yeah because they had like a good big it's like a 10 year gap yeah between albums where they were just like they and they just went off grid like skin did a few solo albums but um yeah yeah i it really hit me that did that it's because you think it's all about six it's about being bigger success being a bigger album sell more copies do more things yeah but you're supernova one like that yeah you got you got nowhere to go and she was just like no not having that and again someone with just a voice is just on i mean it's unreal yeah again somebody with a voice just like alanis morissette there's no one else's things like that yeah it's inimitable you can't pretend to be do you know i mean you can't you can't like i bet there aren't i bet there aren't many skunkin nancy covers do you know what i mean yeah yeah you can pretend to be john bon jovi so there's loads of bon jovi cover bands yeah you can't but i don't know maybe you can but i i can't imagine i'll tell you who else is inimitable and that's vince neil yeah he can't do that can he can't do that he can't pretend to be he can't pretend to be vince neil anymore so you've got no chance so um so let's do stoosh stoosh right good over and out love you all bye love you bye