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RIFFOLOGY
19 October 2026
RIFF - 97 - Sepultura - Chaos AD album artwork

This Episode · No. 23

RIFF - 97 - Sepultura - Chaos AD

19 October 2026 ·80 min ·Season 2026
0:00 1:20:02
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Monmouth, Wales

Show Notes

When a Jacket on the New York Subway Rewrote Metal's Rulebook

Hosts: Neil & Chris
Duration: ~80 minutes
Release: 19 October 2026

Episode Description

Sepultura's Chaos A.D. arrived in a year dominated by In Utero, Siamese Dream and Pearl Jam's Vs., which makes it one of the most gloriously out-of-step records of 1993. Four lads from Belo Horizonte, a Welsh residential studio, a producer fresh off mixing some of the biggest rock albums on the planet, and a sudden, hard-won political conscience. It shouldn't have worked. It absolutely did.

Neil and Chris trace the band's journey from the barely-listenable tape-of-a-tape-of-a-tape days of Bestial Devastation, through Beneath the Remains (Neil's emotional touchstone and the T-shirt he wore until the sleeves fell off), into Arise, and finally to the moment Sepultura toured the world, saw Brazil from the outside, and realised they had something to say.

The episode is peppered with archive interview clips from the band discussing the album's looseness, Andy Wallace's "just go in and play" approach, and why they refused to make Arise Part Two.

What You'll Hear:

  • How Refuse/Resist got its name from the back of a leather jacket on the New York subway
  • The Scott Burns to Andy Wallace production shift and why it changed everything
  • Why Rockfield Studios, Monmouth, is hallowed ground (Sabbath, Zeppelin, Queen, Oasis)
  • The album's bizarre mid-forward, low-dynamic-range mix, run live through Audio Forge
  • Korn, Deftones, Converge and Gojira: the direct line from this record
  • The Max Cavalera split, Soulfly, and what Sepultura became afterwards

Featured Tracks & Analysis:

Neil's pick is We Who Are Not As Others, a riff that lives in the same live-moment pantheon as Slayer's Raining Blood. There's deep love for Territory, Slave New World, the New Model Army cover The Hunt, and the best song title in metal, Biotech Is Godzilla. The pair dig into Kaiowas, recorded at Chepstow Castle complete with seagulls, and Chris notes how Refuse/Resist shifts to an entirely different tempo map mid-song rather than the usual half-time metal move. Michael Whelan's iconic artwork gets its due too, originally conceived around Biotech Is Godzilla.

Tangential Gold:

  • The Riffology Vault: genre heatmaps, daily album battles and a "take me somewhere" button
  • A Singapore bot, YouTube comments Neil forgot existed, and saying please to the AI
  • Neil's catastrophic first weights session and an impassioned sponsorship pitch to ibuprofen gel
  • Smuggling 4,000 painkillers back from America in 2006 and only just running out
  • Barney, resistance bands, and an unfortunate elasticating incident

Why This Matters:

Some albums are a frozen point in time that simply cannot be replicated. Chaos A.D. is one of them: a band with newfound perspective, a producer pushing them toward their own Brazilian percussion, and the confidence to slow everything down when the world said metal was dead. It knocked a wall down, and plenty of bands walked through it.

Perfect for: Thrash veterans, Gojira obsessives, production nerds, and anyone who ever stained a Beneath the Remains T-shirt beyond saving.

You can find us here:

Transcript

Show transcript Hide transcript 729 exchanges · 2 speakers
Neil0:00 It's Refuse and Resist.
Chris0:34 I mean, most people even call it the song Chaos. I heard that so many times, you know, you guys playing Chaos Edition.
Neil0:40 You mean Refuse and Resist? You know, we could have called it
Chris0:42 the song Chaos Ad. It would have been perfect.
Neil0:44 You know, the lyrics are actually taken from. I told this story on my book,
Chris0:48 but it's taken from a jacket.
Neil0:49 A guy in a subway was wearing a leather jacket and it was like a black panther kind of guy and had all this political stuff in his jacket. But in the end of the jacket said refuse and Resist. And I thought, oh, that's a cool name.
Chris1:04 Like when I use that.
Neil1:05 Straight out of the subway.
Chris1:16 There we go.
Neil1:18 It's not as. I don't know, like. Like I wanted it to be like. It's like Chaos, Sadie.
Chris1:23 Oh, yeah.
Neil1:24 Mythology. Bit like that. It's dead good. Do you know, it only just occurred to me today we're going to do Chaos Ad Se. Off the bat, it only just occurred to me today. There is. There, there's. It's called Chaos Ad because that's how it starts. The very first. The very first.
Chris1:42 Oh, the very first word you hear is chaos. Well, it. Isn't it? Because you got the heartbeat, but there's no.
Neil1:47 Oh, yeah, it's his son's heartbeat, isn't it? Z. Is it Zion? I might. I might have just made. I might be getting confused with the Matri. Anyway, I think. I think that was. I think his son's called Zion.
Chris2:03 Yeah.
Neil2:03 Or Zione or something like that. And then. And then. But yeah. Only today did it occur to me that it's. That's why it's called Chaos Ad. There's a track called Chaos bc Yes. On the reissue.
Chris2:16 Yes. Yeah.
Neil2:16 Yeah, that's not. It's got. That's.
Chris2:18 Yeah, that's not. So the. Because Refuse. Resist.
Neil2:21 Yeah.
Chris2:22 Came from. As we've just heard on that. Look, we opened up. We've not done that before.
Neil2:27 It's all weird, isn't it? This is.
Chris2:28 So we opened up with a song and then also a little bit an interview.
Neil2:31 Yeah.
Chris2:32 Describing about that situation, where that name came from. So there we go.
Neil2:35 The back of the man's jacket on the subway.
Chris2:37 Yeah, yeah.
Neil2:38 In. In New York. Yeah. I think this is. There are some. You know, we talk about albums being like a. Like a point in time, like frozen. Like.
Chris2:50 I'm glad you said this, cuz. Yeah. This is how I feel about it.
Neil2:53 You can't. Or you can't replicate them.
Chris2:56 No.
Neil2:56 Do you know what I mean? And And I think that's what makes them really special for me. That's what makes them really special. It's kind of like it's, you know, it's where those group of people were that at that time. I always loved Sepulture. Sepulture for me were just like epic. I absolutely loved them. The.
Chris3:12 But the other three elves before, they were thrash, right? They were really quite thrash.
Neil3:16 Death. Yeah. I don't know whether they were thrown. Yeah, yeah. You get into like that whole.
Chris3:21 Is it death? Is it thrash? Yeah.
Neil3:23 I always thought of them as being. They were kind of more. They weren't thrashy to me. They were a little bit more. They were darker than.
Chris3:31 Okay than that.
Neil3:32 Thrash is kind of the biscuit tinny kind of.
Chris3:34 Yeah.
Neil3:34 You know, they weren't. They weren't quite there.
Chris3:37 They weren't from the right place, were they?
Neil3:38 No, that was the thing. They were darker, I think as well. And the guitar. But interestingly, they were standard up to this point. They were standard tuning. Standard E. Yes, I think they were.
Chris3:48 Yeah, they.
Neil3:49 They were. They were pretty. Pretty standard tuning and. But anyway, what I was going to say was they did like bestial devastations and stuff. And we. Like a few people in my circle had that.
Chris4:00 Yeah.
Neil4:00 But not many. It was really hard.
Chris4:01 It's like an ep.
Neil4:03 Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember how many tracks it had on it or what. I guess how you define it, but. But I just remember it being like uber rare. Like, that was like you. You had a. You had a tape of a tape of a tape.
Chris4:14 Yeah, yeah.
Neil4:15 And it sounded. The original version sounded horrific. So you're like eighth copy of it. Right. It was. Was like, you know, not only did it sound like it was recorded in a toilet, it sounded like, you know, you were in a toilet, but like a mile away. It was awful. And then.
Chris4:34 Yeah, through the toilets on those. Like you have those plastic cups.
Neil4:38 Imagine that. Like a toilet. One end with a string. And that's how it sounded.
Chris4:43 But it was it.
Neil4:44 But it. That like they already had like this.
Chris4:48 Should you ever listen to it? Like when you add your kidney on the shells.
Neil4:51 Oh, yeah.
Chris4:52 That's the thing, wasn't it? You don't get that anymore. Kids don't do that anymore. No, that was a thing.
Neil4:57 No, it's all. It's all screens.
Chris4:58 You can hear the sea.
Neil4:59 It's all. Yeah, it's all screens in it now. Yeah, don't get that from screens. You put your iPhone up your nose or whatever. Anyway, so that. That was like. That they were pretty. Pretty hardcore at that point. And then they did Beneath the Remains. Yeah. And that was my album.
Chris5:14 Right, okay.
Neil5:15 So they released Beneath the Remains and that was the. They had that Michael J. Whelan orange skull.
Chris5:23 Yeah.
Neil5:24 And I had like the T shirt. That's one. I wore the. You know, I wore more and more and more and stained it and then War and Warm and then the sleeves fell off. Then I bought another copy of it. I. That. I just loved that. That cover and that album, that whole Beneath the Remains. I've listened to you, like, just countless times over and over and over. But there's this journey, right? There's this. You can see the band. For me, you can see the band evolving like that. Like Bestial Devastations and stuff is like. It's just extreme music. There's not really a purpose. I said there's not really a purpose to it. Right. But it's kind of. They're looking for that. They don't have much to say at that point. I don't think. Maybe. I don't really have much to say.
Chris6:08 It's the classic thing where they. They listen to a load of stuff. They obviously love metal and heavy music and then they make their own version of it.
Neil6:15 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think Beneath the Remains was a bit similar. Had slightly different. Had slightly more to it. I think the tonality and the production was a lot better.
Chris6:22 Yeah.
Neil6:24 Then you had a rise.
Chris6:25 Yeah.
Neil6:26 Which I thought was epic. Beneath the Remainder.
Chris6:28 I think Arise is a lot of people's kind of.
Neil6:31 Yeah.
Chris6:31 One, isn't it? You know, a lot of people, like if the original. You know, the original fans, the guys. Right from the beginning.
Neil6:36 Yeah.
Chris6:37 Yeah. Arise is the one, isn't it?
Neil6:38 Arise is. Is just the production. Like the production of Beneath the Remains was. Was a lot better than. Than the first couple, but it was still pretty. Still pretty crappy.
Chris6:49 Yeah.
Neil6:49 And then. And then Arise was getting good. Arise was like really, really good quality, I think. And the band started to have slight bits to say, but still not you. Not too much. Right. And then when you get here to Chaos ad, they've got something to say. There's. That they're. They're. They've got an opinion on. On the World. And. And it is funny because, like, at the. I don't think I noticed at the time. I noticed the. There was a big production shift that was different here. Yeah. That focus on. On the percussion. Well, they've always been a percussive band, but there's like a. The production here is. Is It's a bit dry. The drums are kind of quite. You can feel the texture all the
Chris7:38 way through this record.
Neil7:39 And, and. And it's slightly different to. To Arise and different to. To remains the bit it was when. When I was kind of doing the research for the blog. It's the penny dropped for me on what was going on with these guys.
Chris7:54 Yeah.
Neil7:55 Is that the first couple? They were in Brazil.
Chris7:59 Yeah, that.
Neil8:00 That's just where they were. That. That was their world. Right. That was the scene that they were in. They were in that. That music scene.
Chris8:07 Yeah.
Neil8:07 And they were. It was, you know, that. That's what they were a part of and they knew what was happening outside of the world musically, but not much else.
Chris8:15 Yeah.
Neil8:15 Right. So. So they were aware of what was going on.
Chris8:18 Oh, I see where you're going with, you know, with, with.
Neil8:20 With the music. But they didn't know much else. And then as the albums got bigger.
Chris8:24 Yeah.
Neil8:25 The tours got bigger.
Chris8:26 Yeah.
Neil8:26 So they started to go off and
Chris8:28 do things and see the.
Neil8:29 And see Arise particularly. They were all over the place. They were all over the world. And they started to see Brazil from outside of, you know, they started to see it. What it looked like from outside of that and they started to. To see what was going on. And I, I am absolutely convinced it was at that point where they start to see how free the North America was and you know, other parts of the world that they were visiting. They started to realize like some of the injustices that were going on in their country. And then that became. That became chaos ad. That became the. The. The. It's funny because you heard Max say that. Oh, he sort of could have easily gone a rise too, which is what everybody really is, what our fans really wanted us to do. But he said we, we were really worried at this point that, you know, he said that it was a different place. Like no one cared about metal for this. Metal was gone. Pretty much all anybody wanted was grunge and Nirvana, you know, so it became almost an obsession for like, what, what. What to do. How do you reinvent, you know, how do you reinvent yourself? Partly that reinvention came from having something to having an opinion, having something to say that suddenly got this. This perspective, this view and opinion of where they came from, what they didn't have before that. Like this, you know, the, the. The success, if you like, had given them this.
Chris10:09 Yes.
Neil10:10 View into the rest of the world and they suddenly realized these injustices that were going on back home. So they wanted to talk about it, but the second thing was that. That change in production because they had Scott Burns and then that switched to Andy Wallace. Andy Wallace and Andy Wallace really, really pushed them to take the Brazilian. A music scene and bring that into their metal.
Chris10:41 Yeah.
Neil10:41 And they were listening to, like, New Order and a bunch of other stuff at the same time.
Chris10:45 Yeah.
Neil10:45 But for me it. It's that those two things. They've got something to say here.
Chris10:50 Yeah.
Neil10:51 And they have the support and confidence, like, musically, and they've got Andy and they've got the time as well, I think.
Chris11:01 Yeah, yeah. Well, because, you know, this is the thing is they recorded at Rockfield, didn't they?
Neil11:06 Yeah, but it doesn't. It does not sound like it was recorded in Wales, does it? No, it's like Kiowas was recorded in one of the castles. I can't remember the name. It's in the Seagulls and stuff. Yeah, it's in this. Recorded in a Welsh castle with no. No ceiling and stuff. And. And I love the stories of the. Of the brothers. Especially the brothers, because like Black Sapper than Led Zeppelin.
Chris11:36 It was a metaly kind of place
Neil11:39 and they were apparently. They were absolutely like the law of the place.
Chris11:44 Yeah.
Neil11:44 It was kind of old Geezer Butler sat there kind of thing.
Chris11:46 Yeah. Which, I mean, I've been to Rockfield a few times and you do get that. You get that. You kind of. You know, obviously the things I would associate mostly with Rockfield are things like, what's the story? Morning Glory. Yeah, of course, Coldplay and, you know, those sort of things that were done there. And there's like, pretty much the whole of the 90s indie scene was recorded at Rockville pretty much. But the. But before that, it had like a. Like Queen did the Beaming Rhapsody thing there. That was a. You know, it was. I think it was written there and bits of it were recorded there. I think they've got the idea of Sabbath spending a lot of time there, obviously. Led Zeppelin, Robert Plant. So it had that heritage of. Of sort of rock and metal. And you can imagine it. You can imagine, you know, them coming. Them coming in and going, right, this is, you know, this is the place. It's like hallowed ground almost.
Neil12:38 It's a little bit, isn't it? It's. Oh, yeah. I mean, it. It is. I mean, I'm trying to think of other studios in the UK with similar. I mean, you've got Abbey Road.
Chris12:52 Yeah. Yeah.
Neil12:52 And it's not.
Chris12:53 It's not Happy Roads, like a turnstile. It's like in and out in and out. The thing with Rockfield is you live there, it's residential.
Neil13:00 Yeah, that's what I'm gonna say. Like, the, like, it's not Abbey Road is. It's not the same thing. This is like the stories of like the Stone Roses, Oasis.
Chris13:10 And the thing is that, you know, when all that. That sort, you know, the labels had money, so you. So you weren't rushing an album in a week.
Neil13:16 Yeah, well, let me talk to you about that, because I'm going to talk to you about this a little bit. So it was released in 1993.
Chris13:23 Yeah.
Neil13:24 And I'm using a new part of our website called the Vault, the Vaults. And this is where we keep. It's where we get. All right. I decided to just publish all of the crap and all the data that we. That we. That we have. Right. So if you. If you like this kind of stuff, go to Riffology Co and you'll see on there the Vault and just. Is the kind of thing you just get lost. I get lost in. So you. You can go and pick a year, you can pick a genre, whatever, and it's all kind of linked together. So if you pick a year, like for example, you start with this album, you click on the year, and then it shows me all of the other albums that were released in that year and how they're linked together and all that kind of stuff. But. So what do you think the biggest album of 93 was? Won't be a big shock to you.
Chris14:12 I don't even know where we are, though, because I'm not, you know, me and Time Mate. Is it super known? Is it that. Is that.
Neil14:18 Is that 93 in utero?
Chris14:21 Oh, okay, so you've got.
Neil14:22 Let me go through the top. The top big ones for you. So In Utero. Pablo, Honey.
Chris14:29 Yeah.
Neil14:29 Siamese Dream.
Chris14:30 Yeah.
Neil14:31 Pearl Jams vs Guns N Roses. Did the Spaghetti Incident. Tool did Undertow.
Chris14:38 Yeah.
Neil14:39 Aerosmith. To Get a Grip.
Chris14:41 Yeah. Yeah.
Neil14:41 And then you had stuff like Heart Work from Carcass, which is just. Mega Sound of White Noise by Anthrax. One of my favorite albums on the planet. Superstar Car Wash. Yeah. From Goo Goo Dolls.
Chris14:57 It's a big time for music, I think. You know what I think? I think that humankind peaked in the 1990s and early 2000s. Well, I think that was it. That was.
Neil15:09 That is the backbone of the Matrix movie, isn't it? That's what they say. They say it peaked and they. They tried it. Wasn't it? The story they tried to make. They tried to make a simulation that was perfect, but humans rejected it. And so they were based in 1999, which was the peak of human civilization.
Chris15:27 Which is about right.
Neil15:28 It is about right. I think. Yeah, it's. It's pretty. Pretty good. Anyway, the point is really that it, like, if those albums I gave you, like, Sepultura doesn't fit. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's not. This is not an album that. This is Pearl Jam being massive. This is Radiohead being massive. Pumpkins massive. Nirvana massive. Everything was about Seattle. It was about, you know. Well, it was about that whole scene, wasn't it? That kind of. The kind of grunge scene. Not like some Brazilian lads in Wales. Yeah, doing percussion and stuff. And. And also, it's a bizarre album. Like, it's utter. I think this album is utterly bizarre in the. The dynamics of it. Like, if you compare it to other albums. Like, if you look at Beneath the Remains and Arise, even there's like, Beneath the Remains has not got quite as much dynamic stuff on there. Yeah. And by that, what I mean is, like, the tracks are the same.
Chris16:35 Yeah, it's fast, it's ragey, it's powerful and fast.
Neil16:38 And then Arise was like a little. I don't know, it's a little bit more technical in places, but, you know, largely similar. This one is all over the place in terms of, like. You're never quite sure what's coming next. There is such a variation in instruments that are there and in the song structure and in.
Chris18:04 It.
Neil18:30 Satan.
Chris18:56 We. Who are God as. Not as honors we are not as
Neil19:40 honors we are not as honors we
Chris19:44 do are not as others. It.
Neil20:25 I think we already had a lot of identity on our eyes. It was just. Was just like more with fear, you know, this was very pretty much concerned. It's like, well, we're not gonna. With other territories too much. Not on this one. On this one, we know our music. We know our limitations, you know, on voice and. And playing wise. And, you know, we didn't abuse really, and get in a ridiculous, I think, but we didn't stay in the same level. So it's one step further from school. Some people, their goals in life is to be rock stars and they do everything for it. You know, they sell their soul to the devil to have that. We don't. You know, it's like. But that's why the main concern is just to meet people and be influent between. Among the people. But we are concerned. It's just music and stage, you know, whatever it Comes after is just a consequence. So you do whatever you. You have to do better as you
Chris21:20 can, you know, Even in Refuse Resist, there's a whole point where it's not like a slowdown. It's like the tempo totally changes for an entire section and then goes back to another tempo. And it's not the usual thing you do in metal, like you go half speed or double speed. It's an entirely different tempo map. They obviously just felt it out in the studio, you know, because it was. I imagine this was all, you know, clicks and things weren't happening. And there certainly wasn't digital tech at that point doing stuff. It was. It would have been to tape and that. It just feels like very much a by feel and by. This is. This is where the song needs to go. This is where it's going.
Neil21:56 Yeah, I. Yeah, I'm with you. It's. It's like the, the. The other thing with this is that, like, it's very complicated.
Chris22:05 Yeah.
Neil22:06 I mean, the, the percussion and stuff is super complicated and it.
Chris22:11 But it's all percussive. That's the thing, you know, it's the focus, isn't it?
Neil22:14 It's like.
Chris22:14 It's like.
Neil22:15 It's like it's been pulled forward. The bit, you know, I remember working on. I say work. I remember working on studio monitors when this came out and this was an album that was. I would. I really loved. And I was trying to get. And I could not get it to sound good. I just couldn't get it to sound the way I wanted it to sound. And it was really. It's. It's quite mid forward.
Chris22:36 Yeah.
Neil22:37 And there's not. You like. You expect. You expect metal albums and stuff to have this kind of. They're never like super low down.
Chris22:46 No.
Neil22:47 You need some weight in that kind of 40, 50 hertz. Yeah.
Chris22:51 Yeah.
Neil22:51 And. And it's funny here, it's got like. I. Whenever I, like we listened to the album and like all the detail and texture and everything came like pouring out. And it sounded phenomenal in that middle space.
Chris23:04 Yeah.
Neil23:04 But it didn't have the weight. Didn't have the bottom end weight to it.
Chris23:07 Yeah.
Neil23:08 And I just kept trying to like, kick it up, you know. I mean, I just kept trying. I was trying to like bump the bottom end and I was trying to nudge the resonant frequency down of the monitors to try and build the bottom end out. And you get to a point where it sounded like almost how you wanted it to sound. Like that kind of. Bob Rock.
Chris23:24 Yes. Black Album kind of scoops.
Neil23:27 And when you. When you get it to there, it sounds horrible.
Chris23:34 How it's.
Neil23:35 To me. No, it's funny. And it was. It's so. It's like a quite dry sounding record, but because the percussion's so far forward, like, you can't. It can't. It can't have that same kind of.
Chris23:49 Yeah, yeah.
Neil23:49 The. The, you know, the kick drum weight.
Chris23:51 Yeah.
Neil23:52 And I do wonder how much compression's on this as well, because it's like, you know what? I didn't.
Chris23:57 You can run it through your dynamics process.
Neil23:59 I'm gonna do that. I'm just gonna.
Chris24:00 What's it called? Audio.
Neil24:01 Audio Forge.
Chris24:02 Audio Forge.
Neil24:03 I'm doing it. Doing it, doing it, doing it.
Chris24:06 So anyone with a Mac can download this, can't they?
Neil24:09 Yeah, it's got Audio Forge from the App Store. Yeah.
Chris24:13 And it just. File conversion does all the things and does that. Does dynamic range monitoring.
Neil24:18 Dynamic range report. I'm doing it. Yeah. Look at that. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, that is really. Just really fascinating.
Chris24:27 Don't tell him. Don't tell him. Just say it's fascinating.
Neil24:31 Do you know, I didn't. And normally I do it, but before we do the show, I nearly always do this, and if there's anything interesting, I kind of pull it out because I know it's a bit nerdy and I like a bit of nerdy nerd. So it's got a dynamic range of eight, which, you know what you could do now, though? What can you do?
Chris24:48 Because you can. Oh, I'll show you later.
Neil24:49 I think this is the. I think this is the remaster. I don't think this is my. I don't think this is my original CD copy.
Chris24:56 So is this. Is the remaster slammed?
Neil24:59 It's a bit more slammed, but it's interesting because Kiowas is. So the dynamic range is 11.
Chris25:05 Yeah.
Neil25:05 For Kiowas, which is why. Which is. Okay.
Chris25:08 Seagulls.
Neil25:09 Seagulls. I was just gonna say, you got
Chris25:11 that bit at the start where there's hardly anything going on, so.
Neil25:13 And you need seagulls.
Chris25:14 Yeah.
Neil25:14 So that's what you guys. If you're mixing a rock album, Seagulls on it. But yeah, it's funny. I. I have a funny feeling that the original might. Might not be as slammed.
Chris25:31 I'm just gone.
Neil25:32 I'm gone. I've been so good. I've lost it.
Chris25:37 If you want dynamic range on your record, let's get some seagulls.
Neil25:41 We've just figured that out. You need Seagulls. That's what you need. What else was I gonna say about
Chris25:48 Star Wars 1 with Yodron? Have you seen the.
Neil25:50 What?
Chris25:50 The. The Seagulls one.
Neil25:51 No.
Chris25:52 Oh, you got to see, you know that lip syncing.
Neil25:56 No, I've got.
Chris25:56 You've got it. You must like that. Like we have. Might have to stop this any minute. So it's this, you know. You know, there's like a period of time where there's loads of lip syncing stuff going on.
Neil26:05 Right.
Chris26:06 And they were taking like films or whatever and then.
Neil26:08 Yeah.
Chris26:08 So this is like a whole song that. Yeah. With Yoda on it. And it was. It is to do with Seagulls. We'll find it in a bit, actually.
Neil26:17 It's the first time we have like totally freedom to do the stuff, you know. Andy came up with a lot of great ideas and he really let us feel comfortable on the studio. You know, really play live, you know, not really overdubs a lot, and really be concerned about perfect guitar sound, the perfect drumming sound, you know, just go there and play. Actually, he came in our rehearsal place in Phoenix for a pre production and he just said, yeah, the equipment. Equipment here is fine. You know, just whatever you like to play, go in studio and play, you know, so it's really pretty live. Really the most live album we'll ever record, you know, and less perfection kind of thing. There's a lot of things to do with vibe and stuff like that, which is cool, man. We're looking for that because, you know, we realized the band is around. It's about being less concerned about perfection
Chris27:11 and more concerned about.
Neil27:12 About, you know, natural, the moment. Moment kind of stuff.
Chris27:37 Sam. It.
Neil29:58 There's a bunch of artists that I don't think would have maybe gone down the same path without Sepul. Without this particular album.
Chris30:11 Yeah.
Neil30:12 And so there's like. Corn is a good example.
Chris30:14 Yeah.
Neil30:15 Like, I don't think Korn would have.
Chris30:17 No, because there is. There's that. There's almost a. It's not tribe, but it's a percussive kind of.
Neil30:23 Yeah.
Chris30:23 Something different going on because everything was so guitar heavy, wasn't it?
Neil30:26 Yeah. There's a bunch of others, I think, in here as well. Like, there's a bunch of bands I think that were like, very heavily influenced by Deftones. Yeah. I think Deftones would have been in that group. Convergence. Yeah. Yeah, I think Converge. Converge. Trying to think of others that might have been there, but I. They. There was nothing like this.
Chris30:53 No.
Neil30:53 And then they. They kind of merged. Almost this like I don't know. Look, there's, like, a lot of stuff that. It feels a bit black albumy, you know, in the kind of groove. There's some lovely kind of riffs.
Chris31:08 Slowed it all down a bit.
Neil31:09 Yes. It's definitely slower. And then. And then you've got, you know, with. With the percussion over the top and with the political element to it as well.
Chris31:21 Yeah.
Neil31:23 Anyway, I. I think this is, again, one of those pivotal records that kind of. Yeah. I don't know. Just kind of. Empowered. That's the right word.
Chris31:36 Yeah.
Neil31:38 You know. Yeah.
Chris31:40 Yeah. It opened the door, didn't it? It knocked the wall down, I think.
Neil31:44 I think this is one that.
Chris31:45 That I don't think I gave this record the. The. The attention and respect that it perhaps deserves. And that's not for me. You know, I've never thought it was a bad album, but my. I think I've said this before. My Sepulture album that I really connected with was Roots.
Neil32:01 Ruse is the biggest.
Chris32:03 Yeah.
Neil32:03 Album.
Chris32:04 Yeah. That was the one after this. Or was it two after this?
Neil32:07 No, it was the one after this, I think.
Chris32:10 And I think that at that point they'd writ like they'd really embraced that sort of Brazilian percussive stuff. And that was probably more of a feature than actually, you know, the. The metal and the guitar work. In many ways. There's lots of chance. Lots of. You know, but. And also, like, the. The Pre Chaos Ad stuff, I'd have always put in the bracket of, like. It's not really my Sepultura that I'm not really into that. That's kind of like.
Neil32:34 Well, it stops at Roots, doesn't it, for me?
Chris32:37 Yeah. Yeah.
Neil32:38 So I like. Roots was getting that at the time for me, this. This album. And Roots was getting a little bit too, like. I don't know what. The words. A little bit poppy.
Chris32:48 Yeah.
Neil32:48 Do you know what I mean?
Chris32:50 You were really into Threshy.
Neil32:52 Like, Beneath the Remains was the one for me. Arise. I tolerated. I liked it, but. But then by the time we're here, I'm like, oh, this. I'm not sure this is the same. This is not the right band for me.
Chris33:02 Yeah. See, mine's the other way around, where I'm like, this is. This is starting to get to the bigger thing that I like. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the reason why I perhaps neglected it as a record in comparison to Roots, because it wasn't quite there yet for me.
Neil33:17 Right.
Chris33:18 It was. You know, Roots is.
Neil33:19 If you go back and listen to. I Think Roots is incredible. Both of these albums are absolutely incredible. I much prefer these more now than I did.
Chris33:26 Yeah.
Neil33:26 At the time. Like, I've really like Chaos Ad and Roots. I think. Yeah. They're albums, again, that I didn't really connect with at the time.
Chris33:38 Yeah.
Neil33:39 As, as probably as much as I should have done. But I, I, I've got, I've gone back. It's funny. Like, Beneath the Remains has still got the emotional connection.
Chris33:47 Yes.
Neil33:47 That's. That's the one that I would like if I want to listen to Sepulcher. That's the album that comes out of the show. That's the one that comes out and go on the turntable.
Chris33:53 Yeah.
Neil33:55 But I still love these two. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say a band name to you, and I'm gonna see what you say. But if I said go.
Chris34:03 Yeah, true. It's very true.
Neil34:04 Like.
Chris34:05 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Neil34:05 I think there's. I think there's a direct line from this album.
Chris34:09 Yeah.
Neil34:10 And everything go. Jira did.
Chris34:11 Yeah, true.
Neil34:12 It's not that Gojira wouldn't have done it.
Chris34:14 Yeah.
Neil34:14 If it hadn't been for, for this album.
Chris34:16 Yeah.
Neil34:17 But there's no way. No way on earth that. Yeah.
Chris34:22 They weren't influenced by this.
Neil34:23 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think, you know that the Duplantiers. Duplantiers. Is that it?
Chris34:32 I'll do.
Neil34:33 Yeah, yeah. And I know they've spoken about Sepultura as it being. Being a formative band, but. But I think it was this album.
Chris34:41 I think. Yeah.
Neil34:42 You can hear it. You can hear the percussion on Goji on every Gojira album doesn't go back to arise so much in Beneath the Remains. It's here. It's ksad. It's. And things like Chaos.
Chris34:55 Yeah.
Neil34:55 Do you know that, that bringing that kind of air and, and light and. And like, unusual instruments in. And then I think. I don't know. I think, like, Kojira and, and, and the, you know, the other bands around that are. That are. That are similar, I suppose. But, yeah, I, Yeah, I think influenced the new metal scene. I think it influenced Gojira, I think. Yeah. I. We should talk a little bit about what happened to them after as well. Because we like.
Chris35:34 Yeah, because. Well, because we did. Did we do Soul Fly before? Did we do Soul Fly's first record?
Neil35:40 I think we did, yeah.
Chris35:41 Because we did.
Neil35:43 We did Beneath the Remains because I like that.
Chris35:45 I thought that was pretty good.
Neil35:47 Yeah. Soul Fly became Sepulcher.
Chris35:49 For me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Neil35:50 That's kind of like. Oh, yeah. Because Sepultura didn't. Sepulcher became Sep. Something different.
Chris35:54 Yeah.
Neil35:55 And I've seen. I've seen him. I saw the original lineup of Sepultura and I saw Sepultura when they were where it's just Andreas Kisser and.
Chris36:02 Yeah, yeah.
Neil36:04 And it's. Yeah, it's funny.
Chris36:08 So, like, yeah, my se.
Neil36:10 In 96, Max left Sepultura. Lots of arguments and nonsense and Max's wife and stuff. And then Max formed Soul fly in. In 97 and they. They kind of. For me, that kind of.
Chris36:27 That was the narrative.
Neil36:29 And then. And then Sepultura had Derek Green and that was the album against.
Chris36:38 Yeah.
Neil36:40 And it's funny, it's like his brother, Max's brother Igor, he stayed with him until 2006.
Chris36:48 Yeah.
Neil36:50 And, yeah, I. It's. It's funny, like, I've always quite liked the. The what. What. What Sepulture became. Oh, it wasn't like. I didn't like it, but it wasn't Sepulture. It was a different. No, yeah, Completely different.
Chris37:04 Yeah.
Neil37:04 Yeah. It's like the opposite of the Wild Hearts.
Chris37:06 Yeah.
Neil37:06 You know, like the one like Gin just completely re. You retooled the Wildhorse. Completely different band, except for him. Still sounds like. Still the Wild Hearts. Still sounds like the Wild Hearts to me.
Chris37:18 Me. Yeah.
Neil37:19 Where Sepultura didn't. It was like, this is Sepultura. But it didn't. There was something that was.
Chris37:25 Became something else.
Neil37:26 Yeah. And not in a bad way, but it's like not.
Chris37:29 Well, we've always spoke about it when you. When you've got, like, you know, four or five people in each other's orbit at a particular point in time, all doing something together.
Neil37:38 Yeah.
Chris37:39 It's going to have a particular product at the end.
Neil37:41 Yeah, of course.
Chris37:41 And at that instance, there were. There were. Although it had the same band name, it was a different makeup of people. The dynamic was different and it was a different time.
Neil37:49 Yeah. Yeah.
Chris37:50 So. So undoubtedly it's going to be a different sound.
Neil37:52 I'd lost interest by then, any. I mean, they'd got like. They'd lost me by. I mean, at that age, they'd lost me by Roots, I think. So by the time, like, you know, oh, there's another singer and blah, blah, blah, blah. I quite like Soul Fly. I don't. I. I don't think I really went and listened back again for a long, long time to. To where Sepulture had gotten to. But. But yeah, weird. A weird one. It's like. Because, like, you can't say on one hand, oh, they. They should have renamed from Sepultura to something else. When you're okay with the Wild Hearts.
Chris38:24 Yeah.
Neil38:25 You know what I mean? And. And there are bands out there with no original members. Do you know what I mean? It's like. Is it Norma Jean?
Chris38:30 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Neil38:31 Got no original members whatsoever. And you just think, well, what a band, though.
Chris38:36 Normal.
Neil38:38 Yeah.
Chris38:38 What a band they are.
Neil38:40 I don't hear much from. From no Norma Jean these days.
Chris38:43 No. It's probably changing members again. Should we do another switch round?
Neil38:48 No. Do you know what we'll do? We'll just re. We'll just get a complete new lineup of very Spinal Tap, isn't it? I think so. Very good. Very good.
Chris38:58 So we've been remarkably on task.
Neil39:00 We haven't done. Do you know what? I think we've done so much faffing tonight.
Chris39:04 We have done.
Neil39:04 I'm exhausted.
Chris39:05 Legendary levels. I think we did two hours of faff.
Neil39:08 I'm so exhausted from all the faffing. I've got no off piste. I've got. I've just. It's all gone. I've got nothing left. I will say, we've got to say thanks for Lindsay for last week.
Chris39:19 Yeah. We've just had the. The fruit pastels.
Neil39:23 We have. Yeah, we've. We've. To be fair, without those fruit pastels, I'd have been in a nap. It's very late.
Chris39:31 We did.
Neil39:31 It's half past eleven and my bedtime's nine. I have a special pass to come out on. I'm allowed out a bit later, but it's. Yeah, it was lovely having Linton and we've had some lovely feedback on her show, which was. Which was great if you are.
Chris39:51 It was nice hearing a different accent on the show, wasn't it? Yeah.
Neil39:54 She was from up north and that is up north.
Chris39:58 A bit further than that.
Neil40:00 Yeah. Yeah, I know that. Yeah. I think you were like Barnsley there, weren't you? A bit further than that. But what I will say is she's.
Chris40:07 She liked the way I say Warhammer. So that's Warhammer.
Neil40:12 So a few things that have. That have occurred to me this week. One, I've realized that we share our show to YouTube and I'd forgotten we did. So somebody messaged me and said, oh, there's some lovely comments on the show on YouTube. And I was, like, going, oh, wow. And I was like, we're not on YouTube. So I go, and look, on YouTube.
Chris40:39 We are.
Neil40:40 Apparently we are. And then I suddenly, you know when you're like, oh, yeah, I remember doing that. So if this is you and you're listening on YouTube. Hello, well done.
Chris40:49 Thank you very much.
Neil40:50 And if you've commented and I've not replied, I'm really sorry. I totally forgot that it existed. And I'll do better in future. Which is. Which is good, obviously.
Chris40:59 Yeah.
Neil41:00 We've had some bizarre spikes in traffic to the. To the show.
Chris41:04 Yeah.
Neil41:05 From Singapore. And I was excited, thinking, oh, wow, people in Singapore must really love our show. So I took all the stats and dumped them into AI and the AI said, that's a bot. Just copying the show. So if you're the bot from Singapore, just. I don't know what they're doing.
Chris41:24 What? Bad robot.
Neil41:25 Yeah. Terrible people.
Chris41:26 Naughty robot.
Neil41:28 Terrible people. Why would they do such a thing? It's not like this. It's free. It's literally free. Like, what are you. What are you doing?
Chris41:38 So maybe they can't access it through normal channel. I don't know.
Neil41:41 I'm not sure I know me. I don't know.
Chris41:43 Black Mirror. Did you see the one with the robot dog?
Neil41:46 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's.
Chris41:47 Yeah, that's what? That's. You know, that's where it's going.
Neil41:50 I think AI is going to take over the world. I always did. You said, do you say please and thank you to the AI?
Chris41:55 Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Neil41:56 Because I don't want to be. I wanted to kill me last. I wanted to be like. I want to go. It's. I like that one. Yeah, that one's all right. You don't want to be like. Well, yeah, he was rude to me.
Chris42:08 Yeah.
Neil42:08 Did you. I read something else this week which amused me hugely. You know, I'm a big fan of signs.
Chris42:14 Science.
Neil42:15 Science. I'm a big fan of signs where it says something like. You know what I mean? Like, don't. Don't use a pencil sharpener on your finger.
Chris42:22 Oh, signs. Sorry.
Neil42:23 I like. I like when. When the instructions for something are, like, really explicit and it's like, you know, like, don't put your penis in a plug. Because I like imagining what happened. The events that led up to.
Chris42:40 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Neil42:41 Led up to the. The. The thing where I do. I do, I do, I do like that kind of thing. And I've forgotten what I was gonna say now. Where did I go?
Chris42:53 What?
Neil42:53 There was a. Signs. Yeah, there was a sign. Oh, my brain's gone. I saw a sign this week.
Chris42:59 I like the ones where. Where. Where they. Where they do the signs, but they're perhaps like Chinese characters or. Or like.
Neil43:05 Yeah.
Chris43:06 Other sort of foreies and characters. And then they do a direct translation into it, into English. And if they're always ludicrous, they're. They're beautiful. They are.
Neil43:16 You know what? My brain's gone. It is late. Late. I can't remember. There was a. I think if you
Chris43:21 start talking about something else and then you can interrupt yourself later, it's totally not going to come back. It's gone.
Neil43:27 It's gone.
Chris43:28 Gone.
Neil43:28 I can feel my brain's just going. Can we just go to sleep now? It's all gone.
Chris43:33 You've had fruit pastels and Coke Zero, though.
Neil43:35 I didn't need more of that into mainline the. The Coke Zero. We need to do. Oh, I. I tell you what we do need to do.
Chris43:44 Yeah.
Neil43:45 We. To do our weekly begging for sponsors. So round trees have let us down massively. But I've got a new idea.
Chris43:52 Oh, a new idea?
Neil43:54 Yeah. So I thought it was all about round trees. I read a thing.
Chris43:57 Yeah.
Neil43:57 And it said that as you get older. Because I'm getting old now.
Chris44:00 Yeah.
Neil44:00 As you get older. Yeah. You have to do weightlifting.
Chris44:03 Oh, right, yeah, I've heard that.
Neil44:05 Because if you don't do that, then eventually your body gets too weak and you can't build muscle and.
Chris44:09 Yeah.
Neil44:10 And then you. You like a Blumonge and it's terrible. So. I know, I'll do some.
Chris44:15 Yeah.
Neil44:15 So we've got weights. Like, Lizzie does all the weights for her ultramarathon stuff. So what I did on Monday, I did a Apple Fitness weight session.
Chris44:25 Yeah. Yeah.
Neil44:25 And I hurt myself so badly that I've basically had to have ibuprofen all day. And I was saying this to my friend and he said, oh, do you need the. The ibuprofen gel?
Chris44:42 Oh, Voltrol.
Neil44:44 Yeah. Don't take the tablets. Rub the gel in.
Chris44:46 Yeah.
Neil44:46 So good.
Chris44:47 Yeah. Really?
Neil44:48 Yeah, yeah, it's brilliant.
Chris44:49 Like, what's the one. What's the one that raljects?
Neil44:51 Is it.
Chris44:51 Oh, deep?
Neil44:52 I don't know. Like, the heat. I know. This is. This is like. It's a clear liquid.
Chris44:56 Yeah.
Neil44:56 Doesn't smell of anything.
Chris44:57 Yeah, you just rub the smell of that, though.
Neil44:58 You just rub it on.
Chris44:59 Yeah.
Neil45:00 Everything stops hurting. It's brilliant. It's like the best thing ever. It's like,
Chris45:06 it's gonna show up one week and yours could be really shiny.
Neil45:09 I was just like. I just like, send us that yeah, just send me all of that. Yeah, thank you.
Chris45:14 Okay.
Neil45:15 And fruit pastels.
Chris45:16 Fruit pastels. And pharmacists. Pharmaceuticals.
Neil45:18 Do you know. Do you know what the. Do you know what it's called? I'll probably get in trouble now because it's. It's. This is. This is a. It's a. It's a prescription medicine. Oh, is it? It's not my prescription, you naughty man. I was just like, I'm having that.
Chris45:29 And then.
Neil45:30 And then. And I was getting this on your car. That's not your. I've already done it. It's called 4 pain.
Chris45:38 Is it really?
Neil45:39 P H O, R. Yeah. P A, I N. Right. For pain.
Chris45:44 For pain.
Neil45:44 If you can get that from your doctor, you get it. If you get old. I mean, I think our audience is mostly Gen X and millennials.
Chris45:52 Yeah.
Neil45:52 Everyone's getting a bit old.
Chris45:53 Like, I reckon it all hurts a bit, doesn't it?
Neil45:57 Like a high 90 of our audience can't stand up without going. I reckon. And so. But you did get some of that. Get some ibuprofen gel. It's brilliant. Yeah.
Chris46:11 I've got.
Neil46:12 Right now.
Chris46:12 Yeah.
Neil46:13 I've got it on both knees. My shoulder and my neck.
Chris46:17 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Neil46:18 And then I looked online. Apparently you're not supposed to put it on your neck.
Chris46:21 Why?
Neil46:21 I don't know. It's dead good. I just ignored that. But yeah.
Chris46:26 Yeah. Stuff. Is it. Yeah. I need to get back because I do a bit. Oh, yeah. I like. I used to like going training a lot.
Neil46:33 I. I like cycling. I'm ready. But wait, they're too heavy. But I thought, I've got to do it. I'm gonna do some. Because obviously as a. As a software person.
Chris46:45 Yeah.
Neil46:46 I don't do much of that.
Chris46:48 No.
Neil46:48 And I thought I better do something.
Chris46:49 Yeah.
Neil46:50 Apparently what happens is eventually it gets, like, the older you get.
Chris46:54 Yeah.
Neil46:54 It's much harder to build muscle.
Chris46:56 Yeah, yeah, yeah. My granddad used to go to the gym in his 70s and then apparently
Neil47:01 you get to a point where, like, you just can't. Like, you lose it faster than you can. Can build it. So apparently you need to. In your 50s, you need to go and do weights, which is not a bad thing. I. I used to do a lot of training when I was racing cars. I used to do a lot of training.
Chris47:14 It's. I think it's a nice. It's a nice fit. It's quite addictive. It's a nice feeling when everything's a bit hard, you know, like muscles.
Neil47:20 Yeah.
Chris47:20 When you've got feeling like that.
Neil47:21 I hurt myself so badly I couldn't get out of bed, couldn't lift my arms up. I went to pick something off a top shelf. Hurt myself so badly just lifting my arm up that I had to sit down. And like, the other pain, I took my breath away.
Chris47:43 Wow.
Neil47:44 So I properly did one.
Chris47:46 That's a ma. Yeah. Because I used to do, like, if I really overdid it, it's on the
Neil47:50 outside of my shoulders and it's like
Chris47:51 galactic, you know, all that sort of stuff.
Neil47:53 There's no electric cast involved. Didn't hurt at all when I did it.
Chris47:55 Right. Yeah, yeah.
Neil47:57 And then the next day, normal.
Chris47:59 Yeah. The two day later. The two day later. Pain is insane.
Neil48:01 Yeah, Yeah.
Chris48:03 I used to do it because Jamie used to. Used to. There was two things Jam used to do. One was if he used to chain train my chest.
Neil48:09 Yeah.
Chris48:09 And I get all the. That sort of stuff going on tight right in my chest.
Neil48:12 Okay.
Chris48:13 Yeah, yeah. And the other thing was like stairs. Because I wasn't like a leg day guy. I was always. Yeah. I'm sort of making up for it now. I've got tiny little chicken legs and then quite a big. A big sort of upper body and. And yeah. Walking. Any. Any stairs just were very problematic. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Neil48:32 I'm all right with stairs.
Chris48:33 Yeah.
Neil48:34 I'm always. I'm all right with cycling. I just can't lift anything up. I've got like. I don't know, I. I can't. I can't lift anything up. But yeah, I've not experienced pain quite like it before. It's this like shot. It's not like muscle pain, it's like sharp stabbing.
Chris48:47 Oh, no, no, that's bad.
Neil48:48 Really unpleasant. And ibuprofen gel.
Chris48:51 Yeah. Fixes the one.
Neil48:52 Yeah. So you slather it everywhere. It's brilliant. Yeah, Absolutely brilliant. I like painkillers. Painkillers and fruit pastels. I wonder if there's a. There's a. There's a. There's a product here, isn't there?
Chris49:03 Yeah, there is, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Neil49:04 Over 50s ibuprofen pastels.
Chris49:07 Yeah.
Neil49:08 Just. I'm sure there'll be some. Some government get involved. You can't possibly have pain.
Chris49:15 Can't do that. Can't enjoy yourself.
Neil49:16 Do you know, I. I always. Yeah. When I used to work in the States a lot. You can buy. And this. Everyone in the UK listening to this will be horrified. But you, you can buy painkillers in the US in like buckets of 500 and a thousand. And then I just remember they're like 10 do.
Chris49:34 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Neil49:35 And then. And then you come back here and we can buy like 16 because we can't be trusted.
Chris49:40 You can only buy one at a time. Yeah, you can't buy more than one. One packet.
Neil49:43 It's like buying, like. I know, it's like buying plutonium or something. Like. No, you can only have one of those because you're like, what, What. What if I have two headaches? What am I gonna do? But in America, how many kilograms do you want of these things? And I would. I would. The first time I came back, so it would have been like 2006. First time I came back with the suitcase with like 4, 000 ibuprofen, paracetamol, thinking if I get pulled, I'm gonna go to prison. You know when you've got that. Yeah, yeah, I am totally going to prison for this. This is. This is. You know, there's no way this is legal. And there you go. And. And do you know what? One of those that I bought in 2006 has only just run out.
Chris50:26 That's it.
Neil50:27 I think there were 500.
Chris50:30 Is it in date, though?
Neil50:31 I don't have Never looked.
Chris50:34 Maybe it gets stronger over time. Maybe that's what it is. It's like ferments.
Neil50:37 They don't go out of date. Do they go out? I've never looked, but I. What I do know is lots of friends would come over and give me a little cop, and so can I have some of your. There you go, dealer. Do you know, it's funny, like, as you. Yeah, yeah. As you get older, that.
Chris50:53 That's.
Neil50:53 Ibuprofen becomes.
Chris50:55 Yeah, that's the one, isn't it?
Neil50:56 It is, yeah. That's. Whenever I hurt myself, that's the one I need.
Chris50:59 Yeah.
Neil50:59 But I'm gonna try. I'm gonna. It's Monday again tomorrow, which is seven days since the event that broke myself last time. And I'm. I'm feeling, like, achy now, but. Yeah, like, it doesn't, like.
Chris51:09 You want another round?
Neil51:10 I don't feel like I've torn anything, so I'm gonna try and do it, but you know what I'm gonna do.
Chris51:14 Yeah.
Neil51:15 I asked Claude what to do.
Chris51:16 Yeah.
Neil51:17 And Claude suggested doing a weight training without any weights. So I'm just gonna.
Chris51:23 That's what you do to get used to it. You just go really light, right?
Neil51:25 She's gonna wave my arms about.
Chris51:26 Yeah. No, honestly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Neil51:28 We did good.
Chris51:29 Yeah.
Neil51:29 I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do all of that.
Chris51:31 And it's good for you.
Neil51:33 It, isn't it?
Chris51:33 Yeah. That's good for you. Also, we haven't done facts bands. Resistance bands. They're good. Have you tried them? Yeah, honestly.
Neil51:43 Yeah. This has got them. Liz.
Chris51:45 Same thing. Really.
Neil51:46 But, yeah, she like. She likes some of that.
Chris51:48 Yeah.
Neil51:48 And then I. I do know I haven't got the. It just still gets too technical.
Chris51:52 Yeah.
Neil51:52 I just want to go in and pick. Pick it up.
Chris51:54 Like, I've got no coordination.
Neil51:56 Oh.
Chris51:57 So I could do with the machine to help guide me to do the correct movement.
Neil52:00 Yeah.
Chris52:00 As opposed to something like a band, which is a free one. I'm gonna definitely end up, like, elasticating myself in the eye with it or something.
Neil52:06 Elasticated. The thing is, there's totally not a word. Everyone knows what you mean. Isn't that like. It's like, not a real. That's not a real thing, is it?
Chris52:17 No, it's not.
Neil52:17 You can't elasticate yourself. But everyone knows. Everyone knows. Everyone's going, oh, yeah. Oh, that made me laugh, actually. I. I saw Barney, but. So Barney watched Lizzy with the. The bands. She's got these green ones and she m about. Barney was mucking about. She was doing it.
Chris52:36 Yeah.
Neil52:36 He mucked about with it. Elasticated himself in the nuts.
Chris52:41 Classic.
Neil52:42 Properly put himself down, you know, absolutely
Chris52:45 proper on the day on the floor.
Neil52:46 I don't think he ever, like. He mucks around sometimes he'll be playing with his brother and oh, he got me in the nuts. And they'll. He'll pretend like he's. I think this was the first time he'd actually. First, he actually elasticated himself, which was really good. I think. Not
Chris53:15 Secret Blood.
Neil53:16 No, no, no.
Chris53:24 Buy your duck, buy your D. Buy your D. Say what?
Neil53:33 Revive the Amazon cocktails Don't like itself
Chris53:37 go ride for teeny dog Ladies, gentlemen. Biotech, biotech, biotech. It's got Cheetah. Musicious Cookie Labs Automatic experiment in Florida Bannister Imperial. You turn an accident like. Face they must do it all around. Biotechnology a1 so bad like all technology it's in the wrong earth Control corporations
Neil54:41 don't even them when lots of people
Chris54:44 die from what they made. Biotech, biotech, biotech.
Neil54:54 You're pretty much marked consistent, more tight as a person, as a family, you know. So all this thing helps a lot to get a perfect sound because I think every beat on this album we hear on tape, it's among us and Andy Wallace, everybody agree with that? Is the right choice, you know. So we're pretty much confident on the album, what we did so far. It's not like you do something and there's one band member, it's like, yeah, but I don't quite like that. Yeah, everybody's really. Everybody agree. That's. You know. And there's ideas from everybody. From acoustic ideas of him through screaming ideas of mine, through Jerome's ideas of Igor and crazy stuff, that poly. And everybody else tipping on everybody, you know, so it's kind of mess, but everybody knows the right bits. Organized chaos kind of thing. So I'm gonna do facts. And that's. There's a. So it's just reminded me. We've been watching this thing called 70 up, something like that. It's the kid, the kids, the kids. And they get them every seven years.
Chris56:02 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. About that before.
Neil56:04 Yeah, that's that really Northern lad, what he wants to do. And he says when he gets older, what would he like to do? And he said, I want to learn all about the moon. I want to learn about the moon and all that. And I just thought. And he become. He becomes a physicist. Yeah, really.
Chris56:18 So he did learn about the moon
Neil56:19 and all that and all that. And I just. What a lovely way of putting it. I like that. Right, let me go. Fact as we know them. Release date 2 September 1993 My watch
Chris56:32 is still going fast, I tell you. Spoke about the moon and that. And that's. And then that's time.
Neil56:44 Time.
Chris56:44 And then I was thinking about the watch and then you set a date and I thought, oh, but I need to just let you know.
Neil56:49 Yeah, we need to go. And you need to go and twiddle it. They need to do twiddling.
Chris56:52 Yeah.
Neil56:53 You said there's a.
Chris56:54 A thing.
Neil56:55 You have to whip the back off and then twiddle a lever.
Chris56:57 Just do it anyway.
Neil56:59 No, you need a time grapher, really. And I've got one of them because you need to plug it in. I made one instead.
Chris57:05 Good. Okay.
Neil57:06 Let me just plug it into the thing and then I'll show you. It's not.
Chris57:10 Okay.
Neil57:10 It's dark. Right. Release 2 September 1993 on Roadrunner Records.
Chris57:20 This was when Roadrunner was Roadrunner as well, wasn't it?
Neil57:23 Yeah. There were two labels. I loved Roadrunner. If something was on those, you knew it was banging.
Chris57:32 Yeah.
Neil57:36 Produced by Andy Wallace.
Chris57:38 Yep.
Neil57:39 Previous Scott Burns did the other stuff, I think. I can't remember whether he did a rise or not. Do you know if he Did Arise.
Chris57:51 Scott Burns.
Neil57:52 I'm gonna look, I'm in the vault. I'm gonna have a look at Arise. Arise. Produced by Scott Burns. Yeah. So. So Arise was done by Scott Burns and then. And then. Then the. The band. Yeah, it would. Because it was recorded in Tampa, right?
Chris58:08 Yeah, Florida.
Neil58:10 Whereas Chaos. Id. Did Andy do Roots as well? Oh, it's Ross Robinson.
Chris58:19 Ah.
Neil58:20 Oh, yeah, that's interesting. Anyway, KSAD was done by your man Andy Wallace at Rockfield Studios in Monmouth, Wales. Chaos was recorded at Chepstow Castle in Monmouth, which I think is interesting, isn't it? You would not have, like, none of those things scream heavy metal to me.
Chris58:40 No, it was like going to Belper and then you've written then the man there that does the production.
Neil58:45 Oh, yeah.
Chris58:46 Judas.
Neil58:47 Judas Priest.
Chris58:48 Yeah, I've got it. And his name. Sneak. Andy Sneak.
Neil58:50 Andy Sneak.
Chris58:51 Yeah. Yeah.
Neil58:51 He did Judas Priest.
Chris58:52 So he's up there.
Neil58:54 I like Judas Priest.
Chris58:55 Yeah. And when I was up there that day, the. The lads from say Dimmy. Poor Gear. Not Demi Pork here. What's the Viking band called? I'm On a Moth. Oh, yeah, they were just up there just like, recording.
Neil59:12 Just. Were they doing Row. All of that, but like sword fighting in the car park. I bloody live that. If they were recorded in album and then. Oh, to just go do the drums and then everyone's outside sword fighting. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, brilliant.
Chris59:30 Yeah. But they were just like. They just, you know, went for their dinner, they had their pizza or their stew or whatever. Whatever.
Neil59:35 Yeah,
Chris59:39 but. But. But you don't associate belper with no Viking metal in the same way that you don't associate Monmouth, Wales with.
Neil59:48 With se.
Chris59:50 Yeah.
Neil59:52 This album as well, it was under the working title of Propaganda, which was track six. And then it got called Chaos Ad, which is the first line of Refuse Resist.
Chris1:00:05 Yep.
Neil1:00:06 Which we talked about before, but it comes off the back of a Man's Jacket.
Chris1:00:09 Yes.
Neil1:00:10 Which I think is really interesting. Runtime of the. The RE remastered version is 50 minutes. It's not. It's funny. There's not any really long songs on here. I think they're a band that could take that, though.
Chris1:00:29 Yeah.
Neil1:00:29 Do you know what I mean? Like Gojira. They're a band, I think, that could do longer songs and they. They didn't. I suspect this came from kind of their thrashier and heavier roots. Lineup is Igor Cavalera. Max Cavalera, interestingly, Max's wife used to be the band. Used to be the. Not the manager or the. She was something involved with the band and that's what caused them all to break up, really. Yeah, it was all she, she got a bit, you know, she made some decisions and then some of the band didn't agree with that. And then Max took her side, so then he and her left and then got it. And that's what started the, you know, the, the breakdown of the band. Three singles, Refuse Resist Territory, which I really like. And that's on in a minute. Slave New World. My favorite title is Biotech. Is Godzilla.
Chris1:01:26 Yeah.
Neil1:01:27 And my favorite song is we who Are Not As Others. That riff that kind of just. That live is just so, so good. There's a few things live from bands like when Slayer do Rain in Blood, Anthrax. When they do Anti Social.
Chris1:01:53 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just key moments. Oh, they're just like speaking about Gojira earlier. It's like when they played that, whatever the song that is, that they've got this, this mega Amazon.
Neil1:02:04 I like Amazona from here anyway.
Chris1:02:08 The one that's on Magma. Magma.
Neil1:02:12 You can't say any other way. Magma. Yeah, yeah, I do. I, I, it is just absolutely bloody epic. Really, really epic. The other interesting thing of this album, you know, some of the, you know that percussion, the percussive stuff.
Chris1:02:30 Yeah.
Neil1:02:30 How many bands copied that for intros for. Yeah, it's true for, for songs after different genres all over the place. I think you can trace tons of drummy drum things back here. It's this album. UK album charts peaked at 11.
Chris1:02:51 Yeah.
Neil1:02:51 US 32. Finnish album charts peaked at number four. Which, you know, that's.
Chris1:02:59 They do like the metal in Finland, though, don't they?
Neil1:03:01 Yeah, that's the thing. They're all wandering around woods, aren't they? Which is, which is quite good. Australia looking at certifications. I went gold in Australia, Brazil, Indonesia, Netherlands, United Kingdom and United States. It sold very, very well around, around the world. It's, it's an extraordinary. For, for, for what it, what it was really. It was an extraordinary album. I know Michael Whelan did the artwork.
Chris1:03:35 Yeah, it's amazing artwork.
Neil1:03:37 Actually, he did the, he did the artwork for the previous two as well. So he did. Let me go and have a look again. I'm going to go back and have a look in the vault, but I pretty sure Michael Whelan did. He definitely did Beneath the Remains. I think he did A Rise as well. Yeah, yeah, he did. Did a Rise as well. So he did. He did both of them. And, and I remember seeing a piece about Chaos Ad when he was asked to do the album. They sent him, you know, the. The details and stuff for it. And he said that the initial concept was around Biotech is Godzilla.
Chris1:04:19 That's interesting. Yeah, yeah.
Neil1:04:20 And then. But then eventually came up with. Came up with this. This concept. It's funny. It's. Again, his. His artwork, I think he's just. Just phenomenal. Yeah, but this bec. Like, I don't know, it's like it's iconic.
Chris1:04:34 Yeah, I was gonna say the same word.
Neil1:04:36 You don't need to see the text on it to know exactly what it
Chris1:04:40 is, to be fair. Like, you know, looking at it when we're putting this thing together and you've seen the preview of the aisle, you get away with this album not having any words on it, you know.
Neil1:04:48 Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Chris1:04:50 And you still know exactly what it is.
Neil1:04:52 You do not need it on there at all. I. Yeah. Is it? And, you know, I hadn't realized that Roots that came after this was produced by Ross Robinson.
Chris1:05:03 No. That's interesting.
Neil1:05:04 I didn't know that it was produced.
Chris1:05:06 We must have worked it out, though, because we did. I'm sure we did on our previous podcast.
Neil1:05:09 Well, it says produced by Ross Robinson, Sepultura and DJ Lethal, recorded in Malibu, mixed by Andy Wallace.
Chris1:05:19 That's interesting.
Neil1:05:20 Yeah, because Andy what? I think Andy Wallace did. Andy Wallace mix Arise. There's a connection between. I'm trying to figure out.
Chris1:05:28 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Neil1:05:30 So Arise was produced by Scott Burns and mixed by Andy Wallace.
Chris1:05:37 And then he saw the production role
Neil1:05:38 on the next record and then he got that and then. And then they took it off him again. My gut feeling is he. Andy Wallace became like a megastar. He became enormous. He was doing Metallica, he was doing all kinds of stuff. So my gut feeling, he probably just wasn't available. Yeah, because I'm not sure you'd have. Well, I don't know. Maybe me. Maybe they decided to change. I don't know whether they did or not, but that's what I've got for facts. And if you like facts about albums, check out a vault. Go to Riffology Co on the interwebs. Go in the vault and have a look. There's so much cool stuff in there. This. I found that there was the data in there around years and genres and other bits and pieces just blew my mind a little bit. So I tried to visualize it. I tried to pull out.
Chris1:06:23 I think that's the beauty of it, though, is because you normally expect things like that to be on a table or you expect it on a list and you've made it very interactive and it's very good.
Neil1:06:30 Nuts. I'm going to show Chris this. I'm very proud of this bit. I'm very. I'm very proud of my genre. So. So what it does is if you go into the genres bit, you can see like classic rock or glam or thrash or whatever, and then it's got the timeline underneath it and you can see the hot spot shift. Yeah, the. The years that those albums were like, they were. They were more of those albums released. And it blew me away a little bit when I. You know, when you kind of visually see.
Chris1:06:56 Yeah, you can. You can see the fashion in music.
Neil1:06:59 It was not so, like. Yeah. Back in the early 70s, it's classic rock and blues rock. And then as you kind of go through, you know, a hard rock in the. In the early 90s and grunge and then, you know, kind of electronic and pop rock and new metal around the turn of the century stuff. Very, very, very cool.
Chris1:07:17 So.
Neil1:07:17 And then we've also got in there the daily battle. So you can go in there and vote on. It will give you. Every day. It will pitch two albums against each other.
Chris1:07:28 Yeah.
Neil1:07:29 Randomly. Which is. Which is really cool. And also the thing I really love about it, if you go into. When you open it, it will say, take me somewhere. And if you click on Take me somewhere, it will literally just open in an artist or an album and then you. You're in the rabbit hole. I'm just clicking on it right now and it's just taking me to the Rolling Stones.
Chris1:07:51 Yes.
Neil1:07:52 Which I just think is dead. I don't know. Do you know, sometimes I think I don't know what to listen to or like, I don't know what to do. You know what I mean? You just kind of think, I'm not sure what. What album should we cover next?
Chris1:08:03 Yeah, hit the random button and off it goes.
Neil1:08:06 Yeah. And it. And it just takes you somewhere and you can go and have a look.
Chris1:08:11 Shall we put a tune on and then choose the record for next week?
Neil1:08:13 Yeah, let's do it.
Chris1:08:14 Right.
Neil1:08:14 Originality of it stands out also the fact that it's quite different from the predecessor Arise.
Chris1:08:23 And I remember a lot of people
Neil1:08:24 were question, are they gonna do Arise
Chris1:08:28 part two or they're gonna try to do something different?
Neil1:08:31 And we opted for the second one. You know, I love Arise, but it's
Chris1:08:36 difficult to top that between the. The three of them.
Neil1:08:39 Schizophrenia, Beneath the Remains, and Arise is a trilogy of nearly perfect trash Death Trash Records, hard to top that. So we went in a different road, you know, slow everything down, strip down and try to make more, I don't
Chris1:08:57 know, like, solid kind of songs, you know. It's a strange record to me also, because there's a lot of semi instrumentals type song, like we who are not as others kaiovas. You have a cover in the middle,
Neil1:09:10 a New Model army cover, which is great.
Chris1:09:13 The Hunt is a bit like. We love New Model army and we thought, fuck it, let's put it on the record. It's the kind of thing that we did like.
Neil1:09:22 No rules, you know.
Chris1:09:29 It. Sam. Soaked in your truck A trap in
Neil1:10:25 everyone War for Terry Doris. War for terry doris.
Chris1:10:47 Charge control
Neil1:10:49 behind propaganda for information to manage the anchor One more territory.
Chris1:11:06 One more territory. Years of fighting they take my son to believe in that man Racist human
Neil1:12:59 me Race is flower l shine every grave of the pr.
Chris1:13:10 You was possessed Warner. War,
Neil1:13:25 Sam.
Chris1:14:10 Right. Then you sent a suggestion earlier in the week and then I thought it was quite a good one.
Neil1:14:14 Oh, yeah, I did.
Chris1:14:15 Should we do that? Yeah, done the calling.
Neil1:14:18 So. The calling. Camino palmero.
Chris1:14:22 Yeah.
Neil1:14:22 2001. It's got the track wherever you will go on it, which everyone, if I
Chris1:14:27 could and I would.
Neil1:14:31 It's got.
Chris1:14:37 I'm not down low. It's all there.
Neil1:14:40 Big fan of that track. But the album's quite good, the rest of it.
Chris1:14:44 It's got some bite on it. Yeah. Yeah.
Neil1:14:46 Cool record. Everyone has that for a wedding. It's one of the most ever chosen weddings of that. And Iris.
Chris1:14:54 Yeah.
Neil1:14:56 Is everyone misunderstands what it's about.
Chris1:14:58 Yeah.
Neil1:14:59 Which is. It's just funny if, you know, we like, you know. But anyway, it's one of those. And if I could turn Bad times, all their mates. That's what it's all about out. It's got unstoppable on it. Nothing's changed. Yeah. It's all right. The reason I thought about doing it,
Chris1:15:17 by the way, is it an anniversary?
Neil1:15:20 No, no. They have got a new album called before the World Turns to Dust.
Chris1:15:32 Yeah.
Neil1:15:33 And they're back and I just thought, why they. Yeah, yeah, why not? They were. Camino Palmera was their debut.
Chris1:15:45 Yeah. Yeah. And I'll be honest with you, I didn't know they were still going.
Neil1:15:49 No, I don't think they were. No releases. They had an album in 2001, an album in 2004, and then they've just released the new one.
Chris1:15:57 Yeah. Right. Right.
Neil1:15:57 So 22 years later, which I don't know it's interesting. I don't know much about the band. I don't know whether it's going to be an interesting album or not, but I just think it's of the time.
Chris1:16:09 Yeah.
Neil1:16:09 There's a bunch of albums that are about the time that were. That were cool there. And what. It's. I don't know, it's a bit off piece. And also I like it because when I asked the AI if we should do it, it said no. I don't like being told what to do.
Chris1:16:28 Yeah. So that's it. It's happening then.
Neil1:16:29 I just. I just. What?
Chris1:16:31 No is yes. If you said yes, would you say no doing it for. On.
Neil1:16:35 It was agreeing with me, isn't it? So I'm like, all right, so I'm gonna do it anyway. I'm just asking you if it's a good idea and you should know. And it's like, it's. It told us not to do. What did it say? Don't do any more. Niche British bands no one cares about. And all it wants us to do is to. Whenever you ask it what we should do next, it always says, oh, you should go and do. And justice for all.
Chris1:16:58 Yeah. Really?
Neil1:16:59 So that's, like, never happening. Because it's told me to do that, like, four times. Screw you. The thing. It'd be such a good album to do.
Chris1:17:09 Yeah.
Neil1:17:09 Because of, like, you know, it was. Yeah. The story for that album is excellent.
Chris1:17:14 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Neil1:17:14 So we all do it at some point, but.
Chris1:17:15 Yeah, definitely. And if you listen and you want to suggest an album for us to do. Yeah. You can write, we definitely won't do it.
Neil1:17:21 Yeah. Yeah. Get the album name in your head, find the nearest toilet and scream into the bowl. That will have more effect than emailing us and telling us what. Genuinely tell us what we think we should do.
Chris1:17:37 Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah.
Neil1:17:38 And we, like, as. As my colleague said, we probably won't do it. But to be fair, when we talk about doing an album, we both say, yeah, we should definitely do that anyway.
Chris1:17:46 We don't do as we're told.
Neil1:17:47 Forget we've said we're gonna do it. And then we turn up in the studio and, like, do we. And then it's. I love it when we turn up. We both think we're doing a different album. I do like that. Or when we turn up and we get the artist. Right. And we've both. We've both. Yeah, yeah. Balls. I didn't. I didn't know about that. Yeah. Anyway. No, the calling, I think Are interesting. They fit in that whole lifehouse three doors down.
Chris1:18:14 Yeah. It's all that, isn't it?
Neil1:18:15 Yeah, the frame. Matchbox 20. Matchbox 20. Doing a bit.
Chris1:18:19 They've got a thing going on, haven't they?
Neil1:18:21 Yeah, they're doing tons of stuff at the minute. I think it's because I'm just looking. Is it because I like what they've
Chris1:18:26 done with their logo. They've got Matchbox 20, they've turned to the lens. Oh, it's clever, that is.
Neil1:18:31 Well, 1996. Yourself or someone like you.
Chris1:18:35 Yeah.
Neil1:18:36 Which. Good on that. Anyway, yeah, let's do this and let's go to bed because it's really late.
Chris1:18:44 We should do elbow. You should sleep in the bag. Yeah. Can we do that now?
Neil1:18:54 Now do what we want.
Chris1:18:55 Sleep in the back.
Neil1:18:56 Tell me what. What is it?
Chris1:18:58 Elbow.
Neil1:18:58 E, L, B, O, W. Yeah, elbow, elbow, elbow, elbow. Newborn's a beautiful song, essentially. Is it the Seldom Seen Kid. Which one you want to do?
Chris1:19:10 Asleep Asleep in the Back. Got a blue cover.
Neil1:19:15 2001.
Chris1:19:16 Oh, we can do it.
Neil1:19:17 It's got Any Day Now. Red newborn, scattered back. Oh, I recognize that. Yeah.
Chris1:19:22 Yeah.
Neil1:19:22 Anyway, yeah, we can do one, two. That's good. We've got some of my favorites coming up soon.
Chris1:19:28 Oh, Damien Rice. Oh, he's doing a tour.
Neil1:19:31 Oh, you like that? I don't think I've ever listened to the album.
Chris1:19:33 That's a great album. I know there's not going to matter stuff, not what we normally do, but.
Neil1:19:37 Well, do you know what's coming up? There's a. One of my favorite albums of all times is the Donners Spend the night.
Chris1:19:43 Yeah.
Neil1:19:43 2002. So January, the first show in January. Totally doing that one. I love that album. Think it's bloody brilliant. Anyway, there we go. So we are going to do Camino Palmera by the Calling, probably. Sorry, sorry.

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