A Chris: Sa. Sam.
B Neil: That is the best intro we've ever had to. That's the best intro to any podcast ever. Isn't that amazing?
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, I got it. I was thinking about that for ages, all day.
B Neil: Have you even thinking about that?
A Chris: Yeah. How I'm gonna do. Oh, I can do that one.
B Neil: What is the. Do you know what I often get confused is when there's that and then there's the close encounters.
A Chris: Oh, yeah.
B Neil: I'd be like, this is what separates musicians from. From mathematicians. Because we can't be like, whatever. Just. It'll do. It's fine. That'll do.
A Chris: It's a good noise. Close encounters, the synth noise. That's good noise.
B Neil: There are some. Isn't it weird? There are some noises that are, like, just dead iconic. Like super iconic. I think. You know the ring doorbell noise.
A Chris: Yes.
B Neil: Or people that will go down as being iconic. That will be. And that. You know the Samsung thing.
A Chris: I've got that Windows.
B Neil: Oh, the. The Noki one.
A Chris: That wasn't the one I was going for. I was making. I was thinking about the Windows 95. Have you seen the one where the man's on the roller coaster and he keeps passing out? Oh, yeah. And then he wakes up again and he's got the Windows 95 noises.
B Neil: Oh, I went to the original launch of Windows 95.
A Chris: Did you?
B Neil: Yeah, I did. That was. People were dead excited about.
A Chris: They were dancing, weren't they?
B Neil: Oh, my God, mate. I went to Birmingham.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: City center. And I went there and. Yeah, it was amazing. We got all kinds of free business stuff and there were people dancing and jumping up and down and.
A Chris: You weren't in at the time. You were in Microsoft the time.
B Neil: No, no, I was. I. I was. I was.
A Chris: How old?
B Neil: I would have been 20.
A Chris: Yeah, but you were.
B Neil: I was still at uni.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And. But I. We just got an invite. There was like four or five of us nerds. Yeah. So. So we. We all went and. Yeah, it was. It was. I just remember sitting in the audience, like, I remember sitting in the audience and thinking, this is when we got invited. I thought, this is. These are my people.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: And then sitting in the audience and everyone was really excited and then quietly died inside thinking, these are not my people. Who's mad?
A Chris: I'm Chris.
B Neil: I'm Neil.
A Chris: This is Riffology and we're doing Pink Floyd. Boom, boom.
B Neil: You are here.
A Chris: Yeah. I didn't. Nosebleed.
B Neil: You have had a nosebleed.
A Chris: I'm not very well.
B Neil: My cat had a nosebleed as well, so there's. I think there's something. I think you and my cat have got the same thing.
A Chris: Yeah, I think so.
B Neil: So tell us about your illness because we love. There's a long history of talking about illness. Middle aged, still not right. Middle aged boys talking.
A Chris: I don't know how long it's been now. That wasn't right last week. I wasn't like the week before my voice was. Then we called it off the week before that, I think for realness.
B Neil: And my voice was a bit off last year. But I'm all right now. Yeah, but you're really.
A Chris: No, I need to go. I'm properly not well. I need to go to the doctors.
B Neil: Have you. Have you thought about, like, paracetamol and that?
A Chris: No.
B Neil: You should try that.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Have you had a bath?
A Chris: No.
B Neil: Do you know one of my things.
A Chris: That I've done anything to help myself.
B Neil: One of my things to get well.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And the family are renowned for them. I'm renowned for this. But this is going back for. Since. Since this came out. There is a Pink Floyd album.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Called A Foot in the Door.
A Chris: Okay. Yeah.
B Neil: There's like a compilation. It starts with like C. Emily play and it kind of goes all the way through there.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Discography and stuff. That's really how I got to grips with Pink Floyd.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And what I did when I'm not very well. It's quite long.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: And I put that on and I get in the bath.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: And I. And I switch. We've got like a mirror. Like, you're like. You've got like a shaving mirror thing with lights, LEDs around it.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I switch all the lights off.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Just put my shaving mirror light on.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And then I relax and I kind of float in the bath.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Fixes everything.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: It's dead good. You should do that. Come to my house.
A Chris: Okay.
B Neil: I'll put it on for you.
A Chris: Yeah, great. I think that'll sort it, actually.
B Neil: Will do. And then I tend to sleep quite well after that.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: But they're really funny. Like if.
A Chris: If.
B Neil: If a family member hears like the Pink Floyd coming from the bathroom. No, I'm not feeling very well, so I'll get there. You're right.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Occasionally I've done it when I'm not. Not very well. It's very much a thing where, I don't know, makes me feel better.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: And I'm sure the bath and stuff helps as well, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's just something about that I don't know. I. I first started to listen to it when we had Leah, so Leah was our first born child. And, you know, you're like a little bit lost at that point in your life. You're like, I don't know. There's no manual. I don't know how this works anymore. Like, no one cares if I live or die anymore. It's all about this, this child, and your whole life's turned upside down. That is where I, like, really, really discovered that. That record and Pink Floyd. Like, I knew Pink Floyd before that, obviously, but. But it was. It was that where I kind of.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, it all makes sense.
B Neil: But that was that. It was that compilation. That was my relationship with. With Pink Floyd.
A Chris: So did that have songs from this album on it?
B Neil: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's. It's a really great record. I always look for it. You know, in fact, I'm look. I'm on. I'm on Apple Music now. I always look for it and I could never, ever find it. I have to search where. It's in one of my.
A Chris: Oh, I see you got a playlist.
B Neil: Yeah, but it's dead weird. I thought it'd be like. It's like a compilations thing, right?
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And I thought, well, it's bound to be in there.
A Chris: And it's not. It is.
B Neil: There is that 2011, a foot in the Door, the Best of Pink Floyd.
A Chris: Okay.
B Neil: Starts with, hey, you see Emily play Happiest Days of Our Lives. And then another Brick in the wall, have a cigar. And then it's got like, great gig in the sky, money, comfortably numb, high hopes, brain damage, Shine on, you crazy diamond parts. One to Five. We'll come on to that later.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And then ends with Eclipse.
A Chris: Oh. So One to five all together.
B Neil: Yeah. Ah. And then. But it's. I didn't. Yeah, it's.
A Chris: Oh, yeah. No, that's how it works on the album as well, isn't it?
B Neil: Yeah, yeah. No one's ever heard One to Five is the bit everybody's heard. Yeah, we'll talk about those. Those notes. Yeah, really good. But anyway, that is. Oh, well. Yeah, I. That's.
A Chris: That's the one.
B Neil: That's. For me. That's my relationship, which came out in 2011. Leo was born in 2011.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah. I like this album that much. I'd buy on vinyl and I. And it's a meaningful album because it. It's sad.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: And lonely. They're. They're the two. The two emotions that you can hear in the music on this Album emotions. That.
B Neil: Good description, I think, because that was really. I've been reading loads of stuff about this as we did the blog. And as you know, as you go through the. The weekly block is.
A Chris: By the way, you need to like people who listen to this. If you don't, you haven't been on the blog.
B Neil: Riffology. Co. Get in there.
A Chris: Yeah, it's on the blog. Just go in there and get lost.
B Neil: If you think it's amazing, tell me it's amazing. If you don't think it's am. Yeah, just going. But. But. So the more I was reading, it's. I think it's fascinating. So you get these really analytical articles about. Wish you were here. And they'd say. They start with this. This album is about Sid Barrett.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And I don't think it is.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: But the more I read about it and the more I listen to the articles and the. The interviews of the band at the.
A Chris: Time.
B Neil: They went into the studio off the back of Dark side.
A Chris: Yeah. Which went bananas, didn't it?
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: I mean, it went. Absolutely.
B Neil: But they've got no idea what to do.
A Chris: No.
B Neil: So they. They've got.
A Chris: They're lost.
B Neil: Yeah. Dark side's gone mad.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And has sold like a billion copies.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah. And they've got no more songs.
B Neil: Yeah. They've got so much money. They've got loads of money. They go into the studio. They're in Abbey Road, which is not a cheap place to hang out.
A Chris: But. But.
B Neil: But there's, like, nothing to do. And they don't know what to do. They don't know what to record. And they try all kinds of different ideas and then eventually start to kind of settle on this concept of loss and that obviously they lose. They lost Syd Barrett and that allows them to think about this stuff. But I think it was almost like Sid Barrett was like a catalyst for this. But I think the once. Once Roger Waters had got the idea, I kind of think that's okay. And then he kind of ran with it. Cause you often you hear him talk about this and he's like, well, yeah, okay. Like. So for us it was about Sid Barrett, but for you it might be something different.
A Chris: Yes. And, yeah.
B Neil: You know, like, wish you were here is. You know, you're. You're kind of. It's. It's the loss of somebody and the emotions. And this is the bit I was trying to get, is a long, meandering way of getting to your point. But it's the emotion of that missing somebody. Yeah. And what. Because it's not all just, oh, you know, I'm. I'm missing this person. There's other bits there. So there's like, anger.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: In there about. I'm. You know, I'm angry that I'm missing that person. And, you know, there are. There are other. The other bits of the. The. The album. So you've got Wish you here, then you've got have a Cigar, which I think is kind of quite. It's quite an angry song. Not welcome to the machines. Quite cynical.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: And then. And then wish you were here is quite regretful. I think the beginning parts of wish you were here is kind of remember remembering, if you like.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: That person that you. That you. And then. And then the final parts of kind of where the album closes. It's. It's about the emotions of how that makes you feel.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: But. Yeah, I just. I think. And it's the other thing I think that's really important to us, is really interesting about this. A. All the songs are too long. I know what I mean. It's like. I famously. I really struggle with really long songs. But. But I think here it's. It's like an orchestration. Like. It's like a movement.
A Chris: They're not songs. Yeah. There's a lot of these things that aren't songs.
B Neil: It's not a verse, chorus. Verse, chorus. It's. It's this movement and. And it's the. The emotion.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: As it goes through.
A Chris: So. So Dark side.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: Dark side of the Moon. Like, everything, probably everything leading up to this point, really, with Pink Floyd was. They had songs. There were songs. There were songs on it. There were songs with bits of jamming instrumentally. Bits.
B Neil: I think when you go back to the early stuff. Yeah, they were very jammy jazz. There's a lot of that. And then I think Dark side, like you said, like, Dark side was a collection of songs.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I mean, okay. It is a. If you look at Dark side with.
A Chris: Sid, they were whimsical. Where. They're quite whimsical.
B Neil: Yeah, exactly.
A Chris: Yeah. But then. But then. Yeah. Dark side. You got all these songs.
B Neil: Well, Dark side for these. If Darkseid flows for me.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Yeah, there's songs. But it totally. It's really rare. I take Darkseid out of order.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I will almost always listen to it from beginning to end. In fact, it's incredibly rare for me to listen to Dark side and not finish it. I almost always listen to it all the way through. And they got panned in the press. By quite a few people for. Wish you were here.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Who weren't like you say they were. They were expecting the songs and then.
A Chris: What they got was like one song. Really. Yeah, well, two. Two bits of songs, like, surrounded by movements of music, textures, feelings, emotions in sound.
B Neil: I think where I got to this week with this is. It's not like a movement. It's not. It's nothing that kind of.
A Chris: No.
B Neil: Solid. It's. It's a thought.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And this album begins with this thought of missing somebody and what. That. What the emotions of that are. And then it kind of goes through that whole arc of those emotions and how. But it's a. It's a kind of a thought that. That is.
A Chris: I was thinking about it. The. There's. There's this idea of. But the. But there's this thing about being lost. There's a big thing about being lost. Like, you know, that. Stop. When they went into the studio, they had no songs. They had nothing to go on.
B Neil: They were kind of like darts.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Just had no. Nothing. I know that feeling, like, you know, when you. I've had it recently. I remember speaking to Paddy about this and you could sort of see he was a little bit gutted for me. And I'm like, I haven't got anything to say.
B Neil: I don't know what to do.
A Chris: Yeah, I've got anything to say. I've said lots of stuff in. In music that I've written in, you know, and I really like writing for riding, though, because I. I don't have. I don't. I don't need to say anything. I can just speak through the music.
B Neil: Yeah. And then.
A Chris: And then Patty does that sort of thing. And there was this thing we were talking about where he's sort of saying, what about you as a writer or a creative? You know, what about your stuff? Like, right, what are you. And I was a bit like, I'm. I've. Got anything. I'm Got anything.
B Neil: I'm just really happy. I've got nothing to say.
A Chris: No, it's not that. It's just. It's just. There's nothing that wants to come out. I think that's probably the better way to put it. Ye. So I understand that frustration. And it's not writer's block. It's not like, you know, I'm trying to sit down and write. Nothing's coming out. It's that I don't even have the temptation to sit and.
B Neil: Right with a thing and do it.
A Chris: In the first place.
B Neil: And you've talked about this before, but it's. This is that. I can't remember how the words you used, but it's like this thing is in you.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And your job is to kind of let it out.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Yeah. You know, and that's how it feels. It's kind of like. It's not like you write it. It's not like you sit down and write. No, it's this thing and it's in you, and you've got to get it out somehow. And. And if that's with lyrics or with music or with art or whatever, it happens to be that you're almost a conduit of that, and it kind of lives within you.
A Chris: There's a point where he wanted to write instrumental things.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: I thought, I've got plenty. I want to play and jam and do big jammy stuff. But, you know, everyone's like, why? You know, there was. There's this idea of, like, what. But, you know, you've got quite a good voice while you're singing on there. Like I've got anything to sing about, Which is. Yeah, it's crazy. But anyway, that's what. The point I was trying to make is that I understand the. The headspace and the mindset that these guys were perhaps in.
B Neil: Well, they did. There's all kinds of, like, really interesting stories where they went into the studio, didn't know what to do, spent a lot of time playing darts and dicking about, watching tv.
A Chris: A few thousand pounds a day, studio time. That's the madness, isn't it?
B Neil: They, for a big chunk of time, settled on this idea that they were going to write an album based. And all of the music came from Household objects.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: So they. They started to write and create based on this idea of, like, music from wine glasses and whatever.
A Chris: That's how you get Radiohead.
B Neil: And it's interesting. Gilmore's just like. He just went nowhere. You know, he just kind meandered and then went down the plo.
A Chris: We were clueless for a long time. We were faffing about, blindly trying to find a way forward and that sort of blindly wandering about not knowing what the fuck we were doing was what helped to create what came, you know, with Shine on youn Crazy diamond and the whole that Wish youh Were Here album. And that started quite painfully. It was difficult and we didn't know what we were doing. But by the time we were adding in those other songs, welcome to the Machine, have a Cigar, we were working on all cylinders. I would say by then, I think.
B Neil: It'S fascinating listening to Dave Gilmour talk about this period of, you know, it kind of happened the way it had to happen.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And there was this period where none of us knew what we wanted to do. None of us knew where to go next. The record company literally just wanted, you know, the other Dark side of the moon, you know, that's all they wanted.
A Chris: Well, it's that thing of, like. Right. That sold loads. Could you do another one of those then?
B Neil: Yeah, yeah.
A Chris: And you're just like, what? Yeah. I mean, the. The Pratt who we talk about. That's the pressure last.
B Neil: Last.
A Chris: Last time. Oh, it was Simon's dream. It was with Butch, Vic and with Billy and the pressure to come out with the. Nevermind. Yeah, they've done Nevermind. You know, you're like, it doesn't work like that. You can't just pull out and. Never mind. You can't pull out a Dark side of the moon. It doesn't work like that.
B Neil: It is. It is nuts, I think.
A Chris: We worked in this rehearsal room in King's Cross in London, Shitty little hole. And in that room we came up with what became Shine on, you, Crazy, Diamond Dogs and Sheep from the Animals album. Those three pieces were what we had worked up and were working on. And Roger, particularly, when we got to the studio, wanted to drop the one that became Dogs, which is called you Gotta Be Crazy at the time, and the one that became Sheep. And I didn't want that to happen. And we had some arguing about that for a while, but he was right and I was wrong. Not the first time. And we went on with Shine on youn Crazy dad and split it in two to open and close the album seemed to work.
B Neil: Sam.
A Chris: Sa.
B Neil: You're gonna fly high.
A Chris: You're never gonna die.
B Neil: You're gonna make it if you try back.
A Chris: I love you.
B Neil: Well, I've always had the deep respect. I mean, that most sensible. The band is just fantastic. That is really what I think. Oh, by the way, which one stink? And if we tail the name of we're going right in the gravy train. We're just no town we're all. Into the be we're so happy we go. Everybody else is just green now you'll see the char. It's a hell of a star. It could be made into a monster if we all pull together as a team. And if we tell you the name of the game boy, we call it Riding the Raving Dream.
A Chris: It's quite an iconic cover of this album, isn't it? There's, like, the Artwork on the COVID.
B Neil: This artwork comes from a media company called Hypnosis, who are one of my favorites if you like this kind of thing. I'm really nerdy when it comes to album art. I love it. And there is a documentary called Squaring the Circle, which is all about hypnosis. They talk about this cover. They talk about covers for Led Zeppelin and the Beatles and Rod Stewart, like, you know, that kind of London.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: There was a whole bunch of bands in the 70s. Hypnosis did like all the big. All the big ones. It's really hard to find. I bought a copy on ebay.
A Chris: Right.
B Neil: Okay. So I, I bought. I bought a. I found the. I think it was the dvd DVD Blues. It was one of those DVD Blu Ray thing.
A Chris: A physical media.
B Neil: Very hard to get a coffee copy of it.
A Chris: Like a doco. A documentary about.
B Neil: Yeah, it's a documentary. It's. It's called Hypnosis. It's called Squaring the Circle.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: It talks about this album.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Cover. It talks about loads of album because it talks about Dark side. It talks about the. The led Zeppelin one.
A Chris: YouTube?
B Neil: I don't think so.
A Chris: I think that's your job now.
B Neil: Put. To find it on YouTube or put it on YouTube.
A Chris: Put it on YouTube.
B Neil: I'll get. I'll get. I'll get canceled. Anyway. It's. If you like that kind of thing, it's worth. If. If you're a bit nerdy and you like that kind of. Do you know what it's worth going on the ebay and tracking it down and getting it and, and finding a dusty old DVD player and doing it? It's. I. I was. Was enthralled by it in general. This album cover, when it shipped, looked like that. I'm showing Chris.
A Chris: Oh, yeah, I've seen that there before.
B Neil: For the. For the tape, I am showing Chris a copy of what it actually looked like. So they shipped it in black shrink wrap.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: With a sticker on the front with two robot arms shaking hands.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And the record company hated it. They absolutely hated that concept of doing that. But Pink Floyd, really, it was in. Really important to. To do that. Like the, the. The. The logo on the front. That sticker on the front of the robot hands was meant to be kind of like these, These kind of lifeless hands, like. Like a fake, fake shake kind of that, like have a cigar and welcome to the machine kind of thing. As for the actual album artwork itself, it was interesting. It's got the two guys shaking hands. Yeah. And then one of them's on. On fire. It's meant to be like a bringing to the life of the, of the, of the term. Getting burnt with a deal and they were. Roger Waters was very anti record business at this point. So it was kind of very aimed like, like squarely at the, the record industry. Burning artists and.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Being unfair. The thing that I didn't know until I did the blog this week was that there's quite a few different versions of it. Right, okay, I'm sure.
A Chris: Oh yeah, there's different like shadings of.
B Neil: It or the tape showing Chris there. So. But you can see there's slightly different times of the day. Yeah, you can see the shadows are in different places. The actors are. They're two stuntmen and they set one on fire, apparently.
A Chris: Oh, I see. So they're actually two, they're. Oh, I thought, I didn't look at it properly. I thought they were the same shot, just colored differently. No, but actually totally different shots.
B Neil: I'm handing Chris my tablet so we can have a look.
A Chris: But look, it's a nice tablet, this is. Yeah, it's totally different image, isn't it?
B Neil: The shadows. It's taken at a different time, different angle.
A Chris: Different, different. Yeah, everything, everything's different about it.
B Neil: And I, I didn't. There is something in me that I love.
A Chris: The Holland is the one that we know, isn't it?
B Neil: I don't know. I haven't got a copy of this, so I, I, this is one that I don't have a copy of. So I. Millions of copies of Dark side. Yeah, I can tell you all about that. But I don't have, I don't have a real copy of this. So it was just what I could find online. But I just think it's really fascinating. It's really.
A Chris: Wouldn't it be wicked if they did a different cover in every territory?
B Neil: I don't think it was that excessive. But then you had this on the back, look, you had the empty suit concept on the back. So if you look at the.
A Chris: Yes, okay. Yeah.
B Neil: And again, it was kind of picking at the record industry and it was kind of, you know.
A Chris: Have a look at your tablet again.
B Neil: Yeah, of course you can. I'm just handing Chris my tablet.
A Chris: Yeah, it's the same. It's the Holland one.
B Neil: Is it?
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: So, yeah, I, I, for me, it's, I think it's really interesting the COVID for this one A, it's got hypnosis who did everything and did loads of really cool stuff. Some of their work. It's worth noting that hypnosis did this. They were the creative force behind it. Not Pink Floyd.
A Chris: Yes.
B Neil: So. And this was true of a bunch of this stuff where bands would go with hypnosis and say, here's. Here's our new album. I need. I need a thing. And then they would, they would go off and try and figure out how best to do that and then. And then come up. But they would also do stuff off spec. They would also go and like, they get ideas and God, you know what? I've got this idea. I think this would be really, really cool. So they would go and do it. But of course, this is way before digital art and Photoshop and stuff. So like today this would just be done in Photoshop or AI Whatever.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Back then they actually literally set somebody on fire.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And all of the album covers in, in the 70s that I think were really cool. It's like a golden era of album art. I think it was all done for real. Yeah. Like the Led Zeppelin one where they're. They're all, they're all the mermaids and stuff. The holy Y on the. The causeway.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: They had to go and paint people gold and it's all done for real.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: You know, and a lot of these were done on spec ahead and then as somebody took their album to Hypnosis, they would go and say, oh, we've got this. You could have this one. You could have this one. Or we could go and do something new and. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. Just an incredible time in. Yeah. When, when. For me it was when art meant, like the artwork on these albums means. It's, it's as an integral part of the album.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah. Well, Storm came in as he would on every album and spent time with us while we were recording and would talk to us about what the album was about and what we were trying to get to. And as the sort of theme of the album was absence, Storm went away and thought about absence. And so you have a person swimming with an absence of water and a body in a suit with an absence of the body and a person diving into water with an absence of splash. Do you think that's because they were big? I know, it's ridiculous. They were big and in front of you and they needed to be good.
B Neil: I think there's some of that, but I think also it, it's. It's because albums made a lot of money back then.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: So this one, the pre release version of this was like a million. It sold like a Million copies in the us.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Ahead of sale.
A Chris: Wow.
B Neil: And you have to bear in mind there are no singles.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: No one's heard it. And then. So a million copies, I think it was 900,000, I think, in the US and a quarter of a million here in the UK. Not a single of. Well, that's not true, exactly. They did do. In the.
A Chris: Have a Cigar.
B Neil: Yeah, The US did have a cigar. Yeah. But in the UK and the rest of the world was nothing. And the band didn't care. The band couldn't care less. They toured this album before it came out, which is another, like, bonkers thing. So they went off and did Shine on, you, Crazy diamond and have A Cigar, I think. And then they did. But they only did, like the. The parts one to five. I don't think they did the whole, like 20 minute. They might have done. But they did. They did that. They did have to go. They did a few other bits and pieces that actually. Songs that would have gone on to Animals. They didn't actually go on to wish you were here. And then they did. They did like half a dozen shows.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And then they went back in the studio to record Animals.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: They were like done now, you know, fully boots. So then they. By the time this album was released and was going up the charts. Yeah, they were back in the studio recording Animals.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Which again, I think is. It's a bit. Bit mad.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: But, yeah, but the fact that there were no. Yeah, there's no obvious singles and the record company was, you know, pretty annoyed. Why? Yeah, why. Why is there no. Why is there no single. Famously, the reviewers were confused when it came out. So one of the most famous ones is a guy called Ben, Ben Edmonds from Rolling Stone. He said it was lackadaisical and that it lacked emotion. It's just bizarre. And he said. There's a lovely quote that I picked for the blog. He says they gave such a matter of fact performance, they might as well be singing about Roger Waters brother in law getting a parking ticket.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: UK Melody Maker called the album unconvincing in ponderous insincerity. Critical lack of imagination in all departments. I think some of it is. I think some of it is that they were expecting Darkseid version two.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: And what they actually got was a bit of a sprawling thought and it needed a bit of thinking where they were, actually.
A Chris: So it was. It was. It was Dark side, then this. Then the wall. Wasn't it that? Animals?
B Neil: Then the wall was this.
A Chris: See that's a really. But that's a really logical time. Like when you see it, when you look at it retrospectively, that order of albums makes sense, doesn't it?
B Neil: I'm looking now because for some reason. Oh, my Internet's gone off. For some reason, I think there's.
A Chris: Was there an extra one?
B Neil: Oh, no. Animals. The Wall. Yeah. So we had Wish youh Were Here. I knew there was another one, but it's because when you look on Apple music, there's Animals and then there's the 2018 remix of Animals.
A Chris: Okay.
B Neil: Now I must absolutely applaud the Pink Floyd Boys, because I can still listen to the original 1977 version of Animals. And then there's the 2018 remix, where, again, see the COVID artwork. I like the COVID artwork of Animals.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Is Battersea Power Station. That's now Apple's headquarters in the uk.
A Chris: Yes, of course it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Spend a lot of time there. It's really cool. I love the Apple Boys. They're awesome. But the. The remix one has got like the newer version on it. But I like. I like the fact that I can still listen to original. Yeah, everyone should do that. If you're gonna remix, you're gonna remake whatever you're gonna do.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Leave the original one there.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Don't be a. I was going to say as well, that. So those reviews, lots of them have changed their opinion since.
A Chris: Of course they have. Well, wonder if a million sales have had something to do with that.
B Neil: I don't know. I kind of think there's. There's something to do with this. Like when I. When I remember first being played Pink Floyd and just thinking, whatever.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: I don't get it. Don't get now. It's a really fundamental part of my, like, musical diet.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Pink Floyd is something I listen to like super regularly.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Monthly, weekly, probably a Pink Floyd song. I think you can change your opinion on stuff and I think is your taste changes as you get older and that's very true. You know, you do. You do like different things, but I don't think you should change. Like, Pink Floyd is a bit boring.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Right. There's no getting around. It's not exciting. It doesn't slam you in the face like a hardcore record or like the Prodigy or. Do you know what I mean? It doesn't like smack your up.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: You know, but it's. It's a different. You engage with it slightly differently.
A Chris: Yeah, it's true.
B Neil: And you know, I think what it says more about you and the position you were in. So you know these reviewers. So Ben Edmonds, when he listened to it, I think that probably says more about him and where he was than.
A Chris: The mother band was.
B Neil: The band was in, the album was. And I think you live with that. There are reviews that I wrote back, like, 10 years. 10 years ago about albums that I just think. You just think they're shocking.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: But that was how I perceived it at the time.
A Chris: Okay. Yeah, yeah, makes sense.
B Neil: So I don't think you should back out of that, but I think you could change. You could say, look, I did think it was boring at the time. And actually now I think it's.
A Chris: Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all right.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: It's hard to change your mind.
B Neil: It is. It's a good thing to change your mind.
A Chris: Should we talk about Sid?
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: Are we there yet?
B Neil: We can talk about Sid.
A Chris: Yeah. Because there was this moment. So. So Sid hadn't been in the band since before Darkseid.
B Neil: Well, they said. I'm sure you hear them talk about about 68ish, which was like a saucer full of secrets.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Time.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: So, yeah, I mean, looking at the. Looking at the stuff that they did, I think he was unsource. Full of secrets. Then they did Pluto MacGumer and Atom Hartmother and Medal and stuff. I think he was kind of. Not really.
A Chris: Yeah, he would drift away at that point.
B Neil: Big part of the. Of the music at that point.
A Chris: And it wasn't like they'd sacked him or, you know, anything went particularly wrong. It was that he was really poorly.
B Neil: He got into Roger. There's a lovely interview with Roger Waters that a long time ago that I listened to, where Rogers basically said, look at the mates that he had at the time were really heavily into lsd.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And LSD impacts people in different ways.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And it had a. Like, in some people, it has like a. Like a. I've got positive impact or, you know, some people, it's just, like, weird. And on Sid, it was. It just ended up being really negative. It really. You know, there was clearly some underlying, you know, mental issues.
A Chris: Yeah. That this thing was exacerbated.
B Neil: And it just really brought that out for him. And in. In all the worst ways. It made him, like. Like totally dysfunctional.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And, you know, and. And it. But it just totally encapsulated him. It kind of built this shell around him and. And he couldn't get out.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Which is super interesting because I never really connected with the Earlier Pink Floyd stuff.
B Neil: No, I. Always the same and still am, actually.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Like, as we talked about that compilation, it's got to see Emily play. And you. I think, on there at the beginning, I. I like them.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: But I. I'm never, like, super tempted by the earlier Pink Floyd. Now, I know a lot of my friends who have, like, in, like, would consider themselves, like. I don't consider myself a Pink Floyd fan.
A Chris: No.
B Neil: I listen to Pink Fl loads. My last fm. They're always in the top ten artists for me. Like, I don't consider myself a fan, which is really weird. You know, I've seen the Australian Pink Floyd. I've seen Dark side of the Moon played at the National Space center on there. What's the big ceiling projector?
A Chris: Not auditorium. Planetarium.
B Neil: Planetarium. Yeah. Imagine that. So you lie on your back.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: And you see, you're in the. You're in the universe. Flying through space.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: While they play Dark side of the Moon.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: But I don't consider myself a Pink Floyd fan. And I think it's because those earlier. I don't. I'm not turned on, particularly by them. They're too complicated for me. There's something about. It's like jazz.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: They're too. This is on the verge for me, but I think it's because it's in bits. I think there's. There's that, you know, wish you were here is like 20 minutes long, essentially. But there are bits that you could. I can hear bits stopping and starting and stopping, and it feels like the things are moving. So although it's. They're not songs, I can kind of feel them. It feels like songs to me. Yes, the. Some. Well, a lot of the earlier, you know, Sorcerer, full of secrets and stuff.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: It's just a bit too much.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: If that makes sense.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: I just looked on ebay while you were faffing around a minute ago for the. Squaring the circle, the story of hypnosis. Yeah, There's. There's. There are copies on there and you can still buy. They've just done a collector's copy. Copy, which you can buy. I thought I would add that while.
A Chris: There we go.
B Neil: While I was faffing. You can buy it, but you can buy it for 10 squids and you can buy. You can. You can buy that. There's a. You can get. It's really cool, actually. You can get, like, posters and other bits and pieces, but.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Yeah. About 10 quid for a used copy of the DVD or about 20 quid.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: If you want the like signed collectors.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: I think I bought a used dvd but dead. If you like album art, I would. I would properly recommend. I'm going to click on it because it told me it's got. It's got stuff in. Stories in there from Pink Floyd, led Zeppelin, Paul McCartney, Peter Gabriel, 10cc and Noel Gallagher. Okay.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: No, Gallagher, I think. Yeah. I don't know what. I can't remember. I think Noel Gallagher is just like a talking head on there.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: You know, he's got a gob on him and.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: I think he's just there telling the world how it.
A Chris: Wish you were here. As nearly as good a song as he could write. That kind of.
B Neil: Yeah. Kind of thing. Yeah, that kind of thing. When you know he's talking about.
A Chris: I'm being facetious. No, Gallagher can write a song.
B Neil: I'm not.
A Chris: He can write a song.
B Neil: My friend. My friend Rob at work describes himself as an opinion on a stick. That's what he thinks. That's what he says his job is. And that's how I feel. No, Gallagher is a lot of the time in this world of. Of everyone being scared to death of being cancelled and not saying this word, not saying that word. You know, analyzing everything. AI Polished stuff everywhere where having someone like Norgallagher call you A is just. I don't know, there's just something really refreshing about.
A Chris: He just says the bits everyone wants to say. But filters. That's the thing.
B Neil: I don't. Yeah. I'm not sure because it's interesting. I think sometimes it comes across as nor Gallagher just wanting to be offensive for the sake of being offensive. I'm not sure it is. I think it's just there is genuine opinions and I just think he's. He's a guy with an opinion and, you know, I think.
A Chris: Think we're.
B Neil: This is a proper off piece thing, but I think we're in danger of no one having an opinion anymore.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: They're so scared of being judged about what that opinion is.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: We've lost the ability to disagree with someone who's got a different opinion.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And still be mates and still be like going, well, I think differently.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Shall we have a pint? Yeah.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Do you know what I mean? I think we've lost that. We've. We've just seemed to have lost this ability to you.
A Chris: We just don't talk about that stuff. If you disagree about. If you disagree, you Have a chat about it. You say, all right, we're different on that. Well, let's just not talk about that again then. Yeah. That's a dividing thing.
B Neil: Or just. Yeah. If it's really difficult.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: If you've got a different opinion, it's got. Well, I. I don't know. Anyway, I. I think. I think that we're in real danger of. And I think AI is making it much worse.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I think it's kind of just polishing this thing. So.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Yeah. You know, it will.
A Chris: Group think.
B Neil: Yeah. It was interesting when we did. We were going to. We never did it because we were both a bit sick. Actually. Maybe we should do it. I. I did this thing where I. I took all of the transcripts from all of the rufology shows from last calendar year from 2025, and dumped them all into AI and got it to analyze them and kind of summarize and then give feedback on how we were doing, what it thought. Thought. Yeah, we were doing. Because it gives you. It's literally a word by word transcript of both of us. Of what we view, who said what.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And it was interesting the way it picks out bits.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: That are potentially alien. You know, I hate that you may have a. You know, you. You. You made this comment about, you know, Bob Rock being a. And, you know, you're going to alienate people and. Yeah, well, he is a dickhead. He's not a dickhead. He's lovely.
A Chris: But it.
B Neil: But you get what I mean. It's like this. This, like, guidance and goal of. Of everybody who's.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Everywhere. And it's like. I don't know, isn't it? It's not like I want to offend people. Like, I don't want people to be angry, but I don't want to be, like, scared to death that I might say, do you know what? Like, Metallica's Load album isn't my favorite.
A Chris: Yeah. With. Without.
B Neil: Without somebody, like, feeling the need to punch me. I kind of want them to go, well, actually, it's got fuel on it. It's got. This one. It's got. I really like it. And I'm like, oh, well, yeah, actually. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: And the same with this. It's the same. My friend's a really deep, dark Pink Floyd fan, and, you know, he loves that early Pink Floyd. He doesn't like it. So by the time you're here in.
A Chris: The design that's not his Pink Floyd anymore.
B Neil: He's gone. He's like, it's boring now they're writing songs. I'm not interested. I kind of want this kind of way out stuff. But he'll present that to me and hey, you listen to this bit. This bit really, really cool. And it is. Yeah, yeah. I don't. Anyway, that's no Gallagher in a nutshell. He's an opinion on a stick.
A Chris: Right, shall we talk about wish you were here. The song because. Oh yeah, it is, it is beautiful. It's one that. And I've got. I've got to go a little bit. So I play it a lot. Right. If you. If you get. If you ever get someone hand you a 12 string guitar.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: Your plane. Wish you were here on it.
B Neil: That's just a thing, you know, it's.
A Chris: Like, you know, like the Stairways of heaven thing, you know, know Stairway, no stairway. Well, if you. With a 12 string guitar. If anyone gives you a 12 string guitar, you have to play the intro which you're here on it. That's. That's actually in law and it's a song. Because I used to have a 12 string guitar and I used to only play a 12 string acoustic guitar because I didn't have a six string. I only had a 12 string.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: And that was kind of my thing for a bit.
B Neil: But 12's more.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: And the way a 12 string is choose just for. Just for the nerds is you've got the normal six strings of a guitar are. And then for this sort of lowest pitched four strings which are tuned on ordinary tuning, E, a D and G. You. You've got the octave above. So you've got a low E then a higher E, then a low A, then a higher A and then a low D then a high D and then a low G and then a high G. And what you get is this kind of rich ringing kind of resonant sound where if you can listen really closely to that. Wish you were here. If you'll hear the first note, it is actually two notes. Dum da da dum dum. And each one of those notes is actually two. You've got a low note and a high note. And Anyway that's the 12 string thing. And it's really important because I've always tried to. If I ever play at a six string guitar, it doesn't sound right. You have. It has to be a 12 string guitar for it to sound right. And I used to play it with my friend Chris Hoskins.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: Who was actually a lecturer at College and sort of look around the course and stuff. And we did an album together and we called ourselves Earthsey. And it's a beautiful. Got some beautiful songs on it. Lovely like folky kind of stuff. And we used to play Wish you were here a lot live. And he used to do the, the sort of lead line on it on a harmonica. So. Because it's that you that used to hearing it with an acoustic guitar and then when you hear the harmonica, it's got different sound to it. And the reason I'm going here and ranting about it so much is because there's another version of Wish we're here that's played with a violin. Because there was like, you know, you said earlier about, with. I don't know if we did this while we're recording, but, you know, have a cigar. It was a different vocalist, wasn't it? It wasn't Dave Gilmore.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: It was Roy Harper because he was knocking about.
B Neil: Yeah. He was next door. Yeah, next door. And Dave Gilmore and Roger Waters both recorded vocals for it. Both were unhappy with how it sounded.
A Chris: Did.
B Neil: He was next door. So they said, can you have a go? He had a go. They liked it. In retrospect, Roger Water said it was a huge mistake. Not that he didn't do a great job, but he just wished that he wished it.
A Chris: He had his voice on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Control Freak, I think.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah. So there's that. But then, but then on Wish you were here, there's also a cut of Wish we were here on some of these new anniversary editions that's got this kind of virtuoso violin play. I can't remember the person's name.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: But, but he was just knocking about in the studio video like, like, like Harper was. And then they're like, come and have a go on this violin thing. And it's unbelievable. So, but you that used to. Hearing the guitar there. It's so weird when, and jarring when you get the violin.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: That was, Sorry, I was. That was a bit of a meandering little story.
B Neil: I think it's really good. I I It's worth pointing out. Well, I think for me in, in, in Pink Floyd history.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: So wish you were here has got the, I think the best lyrics.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: On it. Of any song ever. I I the lyrics for.
A Chris: Everyone knows them.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: It's like, it's like, it's like living on a prayer.
B Neil: They're just iconic, aren't they? And they're so, like weighty.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: You know, little things. So there's like. I mean, the big one is weird. We're just two lost souls living in a fishbowl. Yeah.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Which is. Is.
A Chris: I wonder if this was the start of, like, some of the wall themes coming through.
B Neil: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, yeah. I mean, for me, this is a thought, an emotional thought, and the wall kind of takes.
A Chris: It zooms in. Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: But it's just like, you know, did they get you to trade your heroes for ghosts? Yeah. Hot ashes for trees. Hot air for cool breeze. And then, you know, you've just got. I. This. It's weighty. It's got. It's got a walk on.
A Chris: Part in a war for lead role in occasions. That sort of stuff. It's so, so good. Yeah.
B Neil: Phenomenal. Yeah. Just.
A Chris: There's a poetry to it, isn't there? There is a poetry to it.
B Neil: And it's interesting because it's kind of in the middle of. Of the album, but it's. Yeah, there. There is. There is very, very definitely that. Yeah. That feel like shine on you crazy diamond gets all of the attention for this, I think, for this record. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the lyrics in. In wish you were here.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I mean, it's an incredible SO song. But that. Yeah. They hit you.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: In a way that often song lyrics don't.
A Chris: No.
B Neil: And they stick with you. They kind of stick with their kind of. I was gonna. They're. It feels like the first time you listen to wish you were here, those lyrics, like, attach to bits of. You know. I mean, it's kind of like. Oh, yeah. And they. They. But I think they mean slightly different things to all of us. You know what I mean? They're kind of. But they're just.
A Chris: Just.
B Neil: They. They. Yeah, they connect. They resonate with. With people.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: But. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, extraordinary album when you.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: When you look at, you know, shine on you crazy diamond. Parts one to five.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: You know, the beginning, like, part one's instrumental and part two is kind of how we put the show. It's got that kind of the kind of Sid chords, if you like those.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Is incredible. Welcome to the machine. Have a cigar. Wish you were here, here. I mean, it's just nuts. It's like. It's like massive songs. There's a melody they, they. They all. There's kind of a, you know, a flow to them. Even China new Crazy Dime, which is like 13 minutes, it's still. It's still epic.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the thing. The. The thing that I always think about with this album as well is. Is. Is. You know, you spoke about the Sid. The Sid notes. And then you've got the. You know, the shining. Crazy. You've got all those kind of really texture. It's. It's like whenever you hear any part of this album. I don't know about you, I like change frequency. It's the only way I can describe it. It's like. It's like I just switch out of reality a little bit and just head into whatever world that album is just for a little time. But the other thing I wanted to say about it is it's a lot more synth driven than you think. Yeah, there are loads more like. You associate Pink Floyd with the guitar more than anything else. Yeah. Excuse me. But, but. But this. This particular record that. It's actually quite a lot of. It synths quite a lot of its textures and. And synthesizers, which I found really interesting, you know.
B Neil: Yeah, yeah, you're right. It's. There's a. There's a lot of a growth, I would say, on. On this record. Like, musically, it was just hit me like listening. Thinking about the lyrics, the way they. Again, the way the lyrics were inspired by Sid, but they're so broad.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: You know, so I mean, even the. Just two lost souls swimming in a fishbowl. You know, it applies to them thinking about Sid, but it applies to everybody.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: I think it's just extraordinary. Like, you know, there's. There are quite a lot of lyrics through this album. I wish you were here. Specifically where you could put them on a T shirt and. And people would. Yeah, actually. Or tattoos.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I wonder how many people have got.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Lyrics.
A Chris: So. Yeah, they're meaningful for the writers. Who. You said they meaningful. The writers, but they're also meaningful for everybody else. Everyone can find. Find meaning.
B Neil: That's why these. These albums connect because that's what Dark side connects really well. Yeah, that kind of birth, life and death. Yeah, that. That we talked about in there. And if you like this kind of. We. We've done.
A Chris: Done.
B Neil: We didn't dance and we've done the Wall already. Yeah. But yeah, there's that arc for me and. And again that. I really like that. Yeah. And again the Wall. Yeah, we talked about this on the show. Thinking back. We talked about this when we did the Wall. I never really connected with the Wall until we did the prep for the show and I watched the movie and then I read a bit about it, realized the story art, and then got. And then it kind of clicked And I was like, actually, yeah, I really like this. Yeah, it was. It's weird, isn't it?
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: These, these songs, I think they've got a. You know, there's obviously a. A musical element to them and melody element to them, but for me, the weight of them is in how I connect emotionally with them and how they, like, they feel that they're, They're. It's about me. It's got nothing. I didn't know Sid Barrett. It's got nothing to do with Sid Barrett for me. Yeah. They're about me and my emotions, my relationships with people. These lyrics and these songs apply equally well to me than they do.
A Chris: Yeah. You know, and there was a part of an interview that we. That we listened to with Roger Water. We did. We haven't included in the show, but it was one where the, the interview was asking Roger Waters, like, is it about your dad as well? You know, and your dad was sort.
B Neil: Of died in the war.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was like, absolutely. You know, it's not, it's not all about Sid. It's. It's about that sense of absence in general, you know, And I thought, yes. You know, and we've all said. We all know. We all know that. We all know that emotion. And I think that's probably why. Why we all connect with it.
B Neil: Yeah, that is. Yeah. I, I, again, I think that the, The, The. The media kind of blew it, that. The connection to Sid. Oh, it's all about Sid.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Out a little bit. And like I say, when you listen to the interviews, yeah, I think it's really interesting, and it's kind of not. It was inspired and, and, you know, that's what give. Gave things the, the idea and the direction. But. But actually, yeah, it's about loss and an emotion and connection and, you know, remembering people and those kinds of things, and we, we can all. We all feel those emotions, you know. So I. Yeah, I think it's very, very cool.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Came to me very easily because David Gilmore had been playing the Ref, and I'd been listening to it and going, what's that? And he played it. I said, play that again. And so I learned it. And I said, and then what happens? And he said, no, that's it. And I went, I like it. And he went, yeah. I said, so do you mind if I see what happens next? And so I played a few chords and wrote the song very, very quickly, as I recall, probably in an hour. So it was one of those happy times when stream of consciousness works and words come out that have meter and meaning and are musical and fit a melody. And so I don't try to investigate them too much, you know, it would feel a little bit like investigating a butterfly. You end up with dust and a few broken bits. It was when we were making the record Wish youh Were Here, which was all about absence and it was, to some extent, about the loss of Sid Barrett, who had succumbed to mental illness seven or eight years before. So. So I don't know. We're just two lost souls Swimming in a fishbowl. So. So you think you could tell.
A Chris: Heaven from hell?
B Neil: Blue skies and pain can you tell a green field From a cold steel rail? A smile from a veil? Do you think you can tell? Did they get you to train your heroes for girls? Hot ashes for trees Hot air for a cool breeze Cold comfort for change did you exchange A walk on pot.
A Chris: In the wall For a lero in a cause? Sam.
B Neil: How I wish How I wish you were here we're just two lost souls Swimming in a fishbowl Year after year Running over the same old ground what have we found? Same old fears Wish you were here.
A Chris: I bought a 12 string guitar of a guy I know. I think I'd recently bought it off him. And I was strumming it in the control room of Number three at Abbey Road. And that just sort of started coming out, that riff. And a bit like the beginning of Shine on with those four notes, you know. I started mildly obsessing with this riff that was slowly developing. And again, people's ears. Roger's ears pricked up and he said, what's that? Where does that come from? And I had a terrible habit of playing bits of. Of songs by other people that were good. And Roger would say, yeah, that's great, let's use that. And I said, can't. This belongs to someone else. So he got a little nervous about asking sometimes, and I think he was a bit nervous about asking in case that came from something else by someone else. But, I mean, the idea was that it was like a guitar playing on the radio and someone in the room at home in their bedroom or something listening to it and joining in. So the other guitar was kind of supposed to be a kid at home joining in with the guitar he's listening to on the radio. And therefore, it wasn't supposed to be too slick and it wasn't. I've got. I've got a bit of a hot take.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: Before we. Before we start to round things. Round things off. If Sid stayed in the band. So if stood. If Sid sort of made it and, you know, didn't succumb to mental illness and the drugs and the things we spoke about earlier.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: Do you think the relationships would have soured between them in the way that they have?
B Neil: I think this is like the question for the ages. Right? I mean, Roger and Dave. Dave not getting on particularly well. You know, Roger. Roger Waters famously discounting Dave Gilmore just kind of go, well, yeah, anyone can play the guitar, you know, and. And not having any respect for. For that. And, you know, I think famously is a bit of a. A bit spiky to work with. But he loved Sid. He really looks. Working with Sid. Sid was the glue. Glue, Yeah. I think at that point. Well, I think Nick Mason has became the. Yeah, the glue. Yeah. But until like, you know, things got too. Too rough. Yeah.
A Chris: And Nick was out on the road with Gary Kemp and Guy Pratt.
B Neil: Oh, was he? I did not know that as the.
A Chris: Source of full of secret Store. The only reason I know that they're.
B Neil: Doing that now, aren't they?
A Chris: Because. Yeah, because they did the rocket.
B Neil: Yeah, I know they're doing that now. He's back out doing that.
A Chris: I used to listen to that quite a lot, actually. The Rock On Toys podcast. Very good. Good.
B Neil: Yeah, yeah. And nearly as good as us, aren't they? Yeah, boys, keep working. They'll get.
A Chris: Yeah, because they were doing that tour with him.
B Neil: I love those things. I love listening to. I love that. So, yeah, the Rock On Tours is really great. The other one I really love is on Planet Rock listening to Alice Cooper.
A Chris: Yes. Yeah.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: And his Rock On Tours episode is very good, actually. He did one so good.
B Neil: He. I used to go. My memories of Alice Cooper.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I would go into. When I was shooting gigs a lot. I would go into Rock City, shoot the gig gig. You'd be kind of the cur. The care. The curfew would be like normally been 10 and 11 on a weeknight. So I'd be. I'd be back out in the car by 11 and then. And then his show was from 11 till midnight or 11 to 1, I think. So on my way home, I'd listen to. To that which. Yeah, I didn't know. The stories are just. I love. I love the stories in rock music.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: He has. Yeah, tons and tons of stories, I think.
A Chris: Yeah, definitely. I think the David. The David Cover does first Rock On Tours. One that he did with them.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: We'll go down in history of probably one of the greatest podcasts ever.
B Neil: Created Mad David Coverdale. He's really so friendly.
A Chris: Incredible to listen to.
B Neil: He's so funny.
A Chris: What a guy.
B Neil: Yeah, he's really. He kills me on social media. He's on. If you, if you're on the X, David Coverdale's on there. And he's very funny. I love him. It's very, very funny. Not politically correct. If anyone, if anyone likes, like Skirting the Edge of being canceled, it's David Coverdale. But he's epic.
A Chris: I love him.
B Neil: Absolutely love him to pieces.
A Chris: He keeps call Guy Pratt, Guido to see.
B Neil: He'S so. He could just do anything. It's really weird. He literally can just do whatever and everyone just goes, oh, it's. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah, whatever. You can do whatever.
A Chris: Right.
B Neil: What should we do now then, to do some stories? I found some. I found some interesting stories about this album that I really liked. So I'm going to share some with you now.
A Chris: So is this instead of facts?
B Neil: No, we'll do facts.
A Chris: I'll do facts as well.
B Neil: These stories are. Are well known, I think, but I. I think it's not complete unless we talk about. So, yeah, first one is Sid turning up at the studio while they're recording this album. They've not seen him for five years and he. Yeah, they're. They're recording China on youn Crazy Diamond. They're in the studio and as Sid turns up unannounced, just, you know, from nowhere almost, and he's in a complete state. He's like really overweight. He's. He's got no hair. And yeah, the band don't recognize him famously. They don't know like, who's. Who's that?
A Chris: Memory is that I came into the studio and there was this guy standing there in a gabardine raincoat, large, large bloke. And I had no idea who it was. And surprisingly, no one's saying, who's that person? What's he doing wandering around all our gear and couldn't be in the studio and. And then him coming into the control room and standing around and how remarkable how long it was before anyone actually woke up. Finally, I think it was David who said, nick, do you know, recognize him? And I looked and I think I either shrugged my shoulders or at some point Dave put me out of my misery, said, it's, it's, it.
B Neil: And we just stood there or sat.
A Chris: There and just were shell shocked, basically. And then until somebody thought of something to say to him and then we were all unbelievably shocked at his Appearance.
B Neil: I mean, I didn't recognize, I didn't know it was him, but it was.
A Chris: Pretty.
B Neil: Pretty affecting really. I mean, Roger and Dave cried.
A Chris: You know, this slim, elegant, if bedraggled and dazed person that I'd last seen had turned rather balloon shaped and had no eyebrows and not much hair. There is the photograph of him in the studio at the time. And you. If you looked at sid in early 67 and Sid then, it was so different. He was a great loss. And you know, the imagining, what he would have gone on to do is speculating on that, if you like, is. Is he could have become so great.
B Neil: You know, he was a charming, ebullent, talented friend and I miss him, but I've been missing him since 1968, you know, because he succumbed to some sort of mental illness which you might call schizophrenia. You kind of call that combination of symptoms anything you want, but the fact is that if it happens to somebody, it prevents them from communicating with their friends, loved ones, with anybody. They really do develop a wall. And Sid developed a wall and, and, and it was extremely sad. But he was, he was very talented. But the work is there and people love him and people love his work and new people discover the songs that he wrote as the years go by. Like, Sid was gone at that point. That wasn't Sid that, you know, that wasn't Sid that we knew. That was a different. That was somebody different. Yeah, but I just think, I don't know, I think that's a bit bonkers. The other one, the line, which one's Pink? Yeah, that's a true story, apparently.
A Chris: Right, okay.
B Neil: Where one of the record execs came in and were talking to them and, and literally said, you know, well, really great. You, which one's Pink? And Roger Waters, like, you know, you can just imagine getting a pen going, what? I'll just write that down.
A Chris: Wasn't that a key thing to do with the wall as well? Wasn't it like the Pinky character in the wall? Yeah, yeah, that might be where it.
B Neil: Came from then maybe could be made. Which is interesting. Roy Harper comes back.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: So Nebworth. They were, they were both playing on the bill at Nebworth.
A Chris: Right.
B Neil: And. And Roy Harper had lost his spangled outfit. It had been lost.
A Chris: Right.
B Neil: So. And he's playing and he's trying to get ready and the Pink Floyd band vans are kind of out the back and the, the team are kind of getting there. They're just about getting ready to go and set up the PA and stuff. Right. And Roy Realizes that and Roy. They're not. There are different parts on the bill. Right. So, like, Roy's much earlier, Pink Floyd's much later. They're not together.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Right. And Roy. Roy realizes his spangly outfit is missing.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Gets so angry. Degree. He smashes up one of Pink Floyd's vans, which was the nearest thing to him.
A Chris: Wow.
B Neil: At the time. And it. Yeah. It very nearly delayed. Delayed them playing.
A Chris: Oh, I didn't know that story. That's a cool story.
B Neil: Which is quite a story. This is the last collaborative Pink Floyd album.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: So Nick Mason is. It doesn't get any writing credits on this at all. Which is the first Pink Floyd album. He doesn't have a writing credit. But it's interesting. Nick, in Nick Mason interview, points out that he. He, on reflection, said this. After this, the collaboration stopped between the band and. And he said you would. We. We would often get bored.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And leave either Roger or Dave in the studio doing guitar things. And we would literally just go away for three, four days.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Then come back and then do Abbots.
A Chris: Right.
B Neil: Wow. But he said it wasn't. Wasn't collaborative at that point for. For the albums that came afterwards, which. I don't know, I just thought it was interesting that that was, like, his perspective on that, you know, that there was a change. And I think you can kind of hear it a little bit.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: Because by the time you get to the wall.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: It's. It's.
A Chris: Right.
B Neil: I mean, that's a Roger Waters. I think that's a Roger Waters. It's not a solo record. But he wrote it. Yes, he wrote it. Dave Gilmore played some, like, gorgeous melodies over the top of that. But the whole structure and concept of that is. Is Roger Waters.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Well, there you go. Should we do some brief facts?
A Chris: Brief facts.
B Neil: Brief facts. Because I've waffled a bit already released in September 1975. 12th in the UK, 13th in the United States. I don't know how true that is, is. The release dates are a little bit vague, but that's what I've got in my sheet. Recorded in Abbey Road Studios in London from January to July.
A Chris: Yeah. That's a long time.
B Neil: It is in Abbey Road.
A Chris: That's a long time.
B Neil: That's a big, expensive studio.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: To have open. It's interesting, isn't it? I always think the practicality of this must be a bit chaotic. So, you know, famously. Who was it, famously stole time at Abbey Road? Was it Oasis, maybe? I think it was Oasis where somebody else had got time booked.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And they wanted. I'm sure. I'm confident this was Oasis. And they literally kind of almost blagged their way in because you can't, like, let me. Pink Floyd have, like, booked out. They've. They've taken six months of. Of seven months of 1975. Yeah. You know, big studio in Abbey Road. There were. There's other bands wanting that space.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: You know, so I. You. I wonder if there's like a hierarchy. I wonder if at the time there was like a hierarchy.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: You know, like, if. I don't know, like if the Rolling Stones came along and said, actually, we want it.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Or, you know, I don't know. You know what I mean?
A Chris: Yeah. Everyone just gets out of the way.
B Neil: Yeah. It was released on Harvest record label in the UK and Columbia in the us. Columbia famously released a single and no singles were released anywhere else. Okay.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: So that would have been a record label decision, then.
B Neil: Yeah. And the band. Yeah. There's nothing to do with the band. And then the band were kind of like, we don't care. You want to list a single?
A Chris: Do you want.
B Neil: Do not care much. 44 million. It's five tracks.
A Chris: Yeah. I mean, the album length is. Is okay for you, but not without my tracks. I can imagine that's better.
B Neil: Too short. Actually. I think it's quite a short Pink Floyd album. I find myself on this one wishing it was longer.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I wish there were some more songs, but the quality of the songs on here is I. There's no filler. No, it's just. It is the fastest selling Pink Floyd album.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Ever.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Wow. Which I think is really interesting. In the UK chart, it reached number one in the second week. Album before was Dark side of the Moon. Album afterwards was Animals in 1977. And Animals is one that I've never resonated with particularly. I think it's quite cool.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: But it's not a. It's not an album that I reach for in my Apple Music. Music. I don't go there very often.
A Chris: Right. Yeah.
B Neil: I like. I'm often. Dark side. Wish you were here.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: They're the two that. They're the two that I really like or. Like I said that. Discography. One. The.
A Chris: The.
B Neil: Another Foot in the Door.
A Chris: Yes. Yeah.
B Neil: The Best of Employed. I like that a lot. That's got a lot of stuff I like.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: It's the ninth studio album, which, again, it's interesting, isn't it? It's like yeast.
A Chris: Yeah. It's a lot of records, isn't it is.
B Neil: Doesn't feel like the ninth.
A Chris: No, no. Yeah, I see. But then, is it about the chapters of Pink Floyd? Because there's. But they. They. They were. They were so prolific in their early days. Yeah, they really were. They really were so prolific.
B Neil: Yeah, that is true. Album artwork was covered in a black, black plastic, which we talked about before. It's meant something missing. The album art is missing.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Wish you were here. We want, you know, it's all about. It's all about that. The voice, the void is the emptiness and the void. That's what it's about. The record company did not get it on the back. We had the empty suit again, which was quite a cool thing. Kind of hypnosis stuff. And we talked about the release. We talked about all of that stuff. Oh, things that I liked. So on the. Oh, I wanted to go about that, actually. Wish you were here. It wasn't released, so there were no singles. Yeah, but the US radio needed singles.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And wish you were here was the one that landed really strongly everywhere. So although there was no single.
A Chris: No, they did get radio.
B Neil: Oh, yeah. Wish you were here and. Yeah. Wish you were here was. That was. Was playing. Played a lot now, the beginning of the wish you were here. There's like a car radio.
A Chris: Yes.
B Neil: In fact, that's actually Dave Gilmore's car radio. So they actually recorded that and then it's got a little bit of Tchaikovsky's fourth Symphony.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And then it kind of runs through the concept. His concept behind it is it's supposed to feel like the. The. The guitar is playing along with the radio.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: If that makes sense.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Yeah. There's a lovely bit where in the interviews he talks about how looking back, he feels like it's not the best.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Guitar playing.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: You know, you can't imagine any other way, can you?
B Neil: No.
A Chris: I always think there's beauty in imperfection. I always, always. Do I always. You know, if it's. If it's. If it's not to a click and there's bits that are out of time, is real, is human. And I think. I know we've said this before, but, you know, in the age of AI Music and auto tune and I think there's going to be a big resurgence to. Let's just turn the click off and hit record.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: Make some magic.
B Neil: Big fan of that. I think there'll be like multiple. I'm going to go off piece a little bit here, but I was reading something this week about media and images and news where you Will there will be a transparency button that you can click.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And it will be like, mandated across all articles when you click on it. And essentially it tells you the history of that article, where it came from, who edited it, who worked on it, and whether it was AI generated, AI edited, and blah, blah, blah to help you understand, like, where it came from.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I think the same has got to be true of.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah. For sure.
B Neil: Of. Of music. It gets interesting for music, though, for me. Or like, music particularly, because you could. Like you showed me earlier, it's like some super cool mastering stuff.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Where you can do like mega clever things with EQ and stuff and use kind of. And I'm absolutely confident there's. There's an AI model in there that's doing some magic.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: So what. And. And like, I was doing something the other day with some artwork and I used AI to make change to it.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Now, is that me?
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Or the. Do you know what I mean? It's like, how's that gonna work? But I. I can't help feeling that there will be, like, almost this watershed.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Where, like, music released before this point.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Can't possibly have been.
A Chris: Yes. Yeah.
B Neil: And music released after this point probably has been aide. And I don't know, I just kind of feel. I feel it will bring like a spotlight and a weight to the. You know, the. These old. Older albums. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's certainly. For me, it's certainly been like. Like Alter Bridge released the new album this year.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: It's brilliant.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Really, really good, you know, vocals, Miles, vocals, excellent on there. Really cool songwriting on it as well. It is perfect. Like, perfectly perfect. You know what I mean? It's. It's production is sharp, it's clear, it's weighty. No rough edges on it. Really quite powerful, proper. What. What you. You'd expect from a hard rock record. Really, really phenomenal. Didn't particularly move me.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I mean, I listened to. Ran it through a few times, so this is great. Really, really great.
A Chris: Yeah. Not connected with it.
B Neil: No. And I think it's the perfection of it.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: That is its downfall to some degree. You know, you can almost. I can almost hear the click.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: You mean all the good. Dink dink dink dink dink. You can kind of almost hear it as you. And it's like. Oh, I. I'd like this to speed up a bit. Wobble.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: You know, especially like with someone like Miles Kennedy, whose voice is just. Oh, his voice is epic.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: Just free It a bit.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: I. I don't know. I. I kind of. Yeah. I have a funny feeling that there will be a resurgence of, like you say, the resurgence of this kind of not non. Non clicked stuff.
A Chris: Yep.
B Neil: But there you go. I was doing facts, wasn't I? I think I've nearly finished my facts. Oh, there was last year, because it's 2026 now. There was a 50th anniversary.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Release of wish you were here.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Which I think is really quite cool.
A Chris: That's got the violin thing on it.
B Neil: Yeah, that's got the violin. Because it was. The violin was originally recorded and then turned. It's still on the mix, but it's down.
A Chris: Is it?
B Neil: Yeah, it's right. Right down. You can still hear. And then they turned it up a little bit for the 50th anniversary release of it. Headphones.
A Chris: I'll listen to that.
B Neil: Yeah, it's. I. It's interesting for me because it was. This was recorded in what, 75.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I was one.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I was probably weing on the floor. That's what you do when you want. With headphones on, like listening loud to the original version of this. Sounds great. Sounds really good. There's a noise floor. There's a hiss. Sounds bloody lovely. Really, really lovely. Does not need. I. I don't believe this. This is one that doesn't need anything done to it. They didn't really mess with it in the anniversary version. Doesn't feel like there was like a. I think. Was it 20. I think in 2011 it was mucked about with a little bit. But, yeah, the. It's phenomenal how good these Abbey Road recordings are, you know, for. For that. I mean. 50 years old.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: 50 years old.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: It's. I'm. I'm one year older than it.
A Chris: Yeah. That. That's the beauty of music is that. Is that it's time capsule, isn't it? It.
B Neil: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But. But it's like we've talked about this before. It's not just a time capsule of the music. It's a time capsule of how people were feeling and how Dave Gilmore felt on the day and did, you know, played wish you were here on the guitar and it wasn't quite as good as it should have been. And they kind of let it go because that's the mood he was in on that day. And perhaps if it had been recorded a week later and he'd had more sleep, he might have done more takes and how the recording engineer was feeling on that day. And the technology that was available and, and, and, and. And, you know, all of the things and how warm or cold or new mics they got or. Or tapes that they'd got or. Do you know what I mean? It's not. It's not. It's ev. Everybody involved in that process and the hip, what the hypnosis guys were feeling and thinking and doing, and Roy Harper, whether, you know, obviously he wasn't smashing their vans upon a particular day, but I don't know, it all led.
A Chris: It all led to that moment.
B Neil: A bunch of people doing a bunch of things and, you know, the. The history and the decisions that they've all taken possibly have been any different to lead up to them all being in that place, in that point in that time.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And that. That's what led to this recording.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: And I don't know, there's like. I don't know. I bang on about this a lot, but for me, it's just such a perfect thing, you know, and it is. It represents. And I think maybe that's why the, you know, the Alter Bridge record is great. But it doesn't have that connection of. That emotional connection to me.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Like some of these do. And it's because, like you said, it's because of the imperfections and the bits and pieces.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: But, yeah, and I'm sure there probably is some. There'll be somebody screaming at their radio set going, old codges. And I'm sure there are people like that are connecting to this newer music, but.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: It just feels a bit clinical to me.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Turn the click off. Turn the compressors down a bit.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Set somebody on fire. I don't know. That's it. I think I'm. I'm done. I'm. I'm done. I'm putting my tablet down. I'm finished.
A Chris: Done.
B Neil: Yeah, Done. Done. And I know what's next. Oh, are we really? Let's do it. Yeah, I want to do the Metallica. Well, there's a couple of reasons for that. I wanted Metallica.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: We did the Black album.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And. Yeah, let's do. Yeah, okay, let's do. You do a bit of editing, a bit of faffing.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And then we. Because we've got. I think we've got four Metallic albums that we've got to cover. Yeah, we've got to cover Ride the Lightning. Yeah, we've got to cover Master Puppets.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And we've got to do Load and Reload.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And. Yeah, actually we could do all of the Metallica albums. Yeah, of course we can, but on the trot. Just going to be Metallica. Metallica podcast over the next couple of years. I kind of want to work my way through them, but I do, you know, the reason it's come to me that I really want to. To do it. I'm looking at you. My glasses now.
A Chris: No, that's it. That's a serious look.
B Neil: It's because we. We've been watching the Stranger Things.
A Chris: Okay.
B Neil: And Barney went back and rewatched it again all the way through. And so he's been faffing around every Christmas stuff, watching it. And it just hit me how good this season four, I think it is, three or four, where they have a character called Eddie. Eddie Munson, who's the he. And the music. Yeah. The music in season three and season four of Stranger Things is bloody brilliant. I mean, they've got, like, rat in there. They've got. Oh, like Judas Priest is in there. It's just phenomenal. And of course, they had like, you know, Kate Bush and stuff.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And towards the later season. But I walked in on him just as they were doing the Master of Puppets.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Because he plays at the end. He plays that to kind of kill. The. The big, big bad demon thing. And I just thought, that is such a great record.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Got it. That. That. That's got to be done. Got to be done. And then I would really love to do Load and Reload.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Because I wanted, you know, we talked about. I had this idea of doing double albums.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Double albums that perhaps shouldn't have been double albums.
A Chris: Yes.
B Neil: I think Load and Reload and Use your Illusion one and two.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I think there should have been more on the cutting room floor.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: For both of them. Those. Because, like, I think if you. If you. If you look at Load and Reload from Metallica and from. I mean, they're quite different bands by this point, but if you look at that and then you. You listen to those albums and the. The flow of those records and then. And then you listened to Master Puppets. There's no fluffy Master of Puppets. It's just. It's like stop. Starts bangs and then stops.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: But like Load and Reload, there's like bits in there where you think, I'm not sure what's going on here.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: You know what I mean? I'm not sure.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I mean, it's a weird country in western. It's all gone a bit bizarre.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Oh, and that's all right again now. Do you know?
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: But the same is true of Guns N Roses with Use your Illusion. If you listen to Use your illusion one and two, there are some lovely, lovely bits and really great songs on there.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: But listen to you use your illusion one and two all the way through.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And then go and put appetite on.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Yeah. And all of a sudden you're like, oh. Oh, yeah.
A Chris: Yeah. Ok.
B Neil: It's like. Yeah. It's like somebody's watered it down a bit. And I kind of. I don't know. I would love to spend the time and really challenge.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Us to say, is that. Is that true?
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: Is it true? Or were they just, like, so amazing in this point where they were just spewing out the most amazing stuff ever and actually, you know, I'm all wrong. And use your illusion one and two are just as good as Appetite and there's no in them.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: But let's see. Finish off your bits and then we'll make a decision on what's next.
A Chris: All right. Very good. Ram. Ram. Ram. What we're going for, then. What is it? What is it?
B Neil: What is it? Master of Puppets.
A Chris: We're doing it. Doing it.
B Neil: God, dude, I've got. I've got copies of that on the vine. I've got loads of them. Got the original. Got the original cd. Got. Got all of it. Dead excited.
A Chris: I don't know.
B Neil: It's been remastered. I bet it's been remastered.
A Chris: Yeah. Would have done.
B Neil: Would have been ruined the base up. I. It's one of my most favorite albums ever. Most important albums.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And I. You know, when we first started. This is why I can't have a tattoo.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: When we first started this show, Master of Puppets was the best Metallica album that's ever been made ever.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And I would have. I would have died on that hill.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And I would have had the tattoo.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: It's Ride the Lightning. And I. I don't know. Sure.
A Chris: You could get a tattoo artist who amalgamate them.
B Neil: Right. Ride the master.
A Chris: Ride the master.
B Neil: Master. I don't know, but this is. This is. It's one of those things.
A Chris: Master of Lightning.
B Neil: I can't tell you. This is where it gets complicated, isn't it? This. I can't tell you why.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Ride the Lightning's better than Master Puppets.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I think they're better both.
A Chris: And after this, next week, listening to it, you'll change your mind again. Anyway.
B Neil: I probably will do. It's interesting, like, Master of Puppets. For me, I. Master of Puppets was The first Metallica album that I absolutely slammed over and over and over. Like, you know, a friend had a copy. I got a tape of it.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And then literally wore that tape to a point where, you know, you had your. And it would. You had you put your pencil in there and fix it because it was constantly broken.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And then I had to go and get another copy of you mate for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Master would have been, you know, the cd. I would have had the CD if that in my car and it would have been a disaster. Would have been absolutely wrecked.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I mean, so, yeah, I absolutely connected with this on an emotional level.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: But when I go back and listen to them, I think Ride the Lightning's better. I think Ride the Lightning is this. It's. There's something better about it, but I don't know what it. Like it's a fraction of a percent.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: And one day we'll do like Ride the Lightning. For me, I think he's going to be a bit like. There are two albums I'm a bit scared to cover. One is the. The Goo Goo doll stuff.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: So there's two from the Goo Goo Dolls. There's a Boy named Goo and Superstar Car Wash, which I've got a copy of now.
A Chris: Have you got it?
B Neil: I got. I managed to get a copy of Superstar Car Wash which I'm very. I've not played it. No. You know, look at it. And the other one would be Ride the Lightning. So there's those three.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Albums that I'd be a little bit scared.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: For us to cover.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Because it's interesting. It. It changes when we do the show for the album. For me, it changes my relationship with the album. Yeah. I become more analytical.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I understand more about how it was made and. And where it was made and what it meant at the time and all this stuff. Whereas right now.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: My relationship to the Metallica album is how they made me feel and remembering being a 13 year old kid. Do you know what I mean?
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Like, it's a. It's a. It's a different thing.
A Chris: So.
B Neil: But anyway, let's do Master Puppets.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And then we're gonna. I think we'll do Master.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Just because I really feel like doing some Metallica. Then we. I think we'll do. Use your illusion.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: One and two.
A Chris: Yeah. Together.
B Neil: I don't know with them together. Maybe we'll do. No, we're doing one week and then the next one week and then we'll See where we go. But then I think I'd love to do Load and reload.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, cool.
B Neil: And then let's see. Because we've got four weeks then.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And then at the end of the four weeks, I think.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Well, after, I'll have to really answer to my big gob about whether I think. But is it really flippant to say those two.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Those albums were just. There's too much filler, too much fluff in them.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And I'd rather they were shorter and more punchy.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: You know, scrap some songs. And if they were going to be scrapped.
A Chris: Yeah. Which ones would.
B Neil: I think I need to answer the question. What would. Yeah. What would.
A Chris: Which would go. Yeah, so which would be the B sides?
B Neil: Yeah. So if we were gonna do. If we were gonna do, like, load and reload as one album.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I think I need to answer what that should be.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Okay. And I think the same for Use your Illusion. I think I need to answer the. Hey, actually, this is the run Use.
A Chris: Your Illusion and what order would it be in?
B Neil: Yeah, Use your Illusion should be. Yeah, the. These songs.
A Chris: Yeah. Oh, that's it.
B Neil: That's exciting, don't you think?
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Because I think if I'm gonna be like. If I'm gonna be opinionated, like.
A Chris: Yeah. Oh, and that. And there'll definitely be people shouting at their podcast.
B Neil: Yeah. I think if I'm gonna be like an opinion on a stick, like you may know, then I think I should. I should do that. But let's do them. Let's do each one.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And then at the end.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: So we'll do. We'll do Master Puppets first, just because it's epic.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Yeah. Then we'll do Use your illusion one and two at the end of Use your illusion two.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I shall.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Announce.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: To the world what the order should be in.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And everyone will disagree. And then we'll do the same. Or load and reload.
A Chris: Great.
B Neil: I've not listened to load and reload.
A Chris: That's the plan.
B Neil: Are we gonna stick to our planet or see. Let's see how it might be really boring listening to you. Oh, I don't really like this, but I'm hoping. You know what I'm hoping. I'm hoping that these are four albums that I've never really connected with.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Particularly.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I. I had such an incredible relationship with Appetite and, I mean, not so much the Black album before this, but certainly justice and Master. Yeah, justice and Master and. And Lightning and stuff. So, you know, I've had like a really strong relationship with the band until they did these, you know, preposterous double album.
A Chris: Yeah, well, we, we know what's gonna happen.
B Neil: What's gonna happen?
A Chris: You're gonna find. They're gonna. Are gonna find some newfound love for them and they're actually gonna end up being your favorites. And then you're gonna go and go and order the double vinyl.
B Neil: Don't do that. I'm probably not gonna do that. I've got. There are. I've been tempted, you know, lately I've been tempted to go and order a few of the original CDs cuz CDs are still not stupid money.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And yeah, the Black Album is one that I ordered and I'm on ebay and that. Or you know, I love going. If we. If we're traveling around as a family, I love going to find record shops.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Proper old ones. Not like hmv where it's like, you know, they, they bend you over while they're. It's just awful buying new vinyl. But I've been going, getting some of the old CDs.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And I'm enjoying that as well.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: You know, just kind of putting a physical thing in the box.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And hearing it go as it. You know, I like all that.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Anyway, I'll show up now. Yeah, see you next week.
A Chris: See you.
B Neil: Bye.